Shooting an Indie Movie in Open Water with Elliott Hasler

Welcome back to On Production, a podcast brought to you by Wrapbook. Today, I'm diving into the grit and ingenuity it takes for independent filmmakers to bring ambitious visions to life on screen. Our guest today is Elliott Hasler. His debut feature, Vindication Swim, it's a period sports drama, was shot in open water over three years and finished with a year of post-production at Warner Brothers Delaney Studios.

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The film went on to break into the UK box office top 20 and played in over 300 cinemas for 18 weeks. Elliott's passion for filmmaking started really early. He's also directed World War II, The Long Road Home, which secured international distribution, eventually landing on Sky Cinema's top 25. Today, Elliott joins me to share the behind the scenes story of how Vindication Swim was made, from shooting in unforgiving open water to navigating the challenges of indie financing, scheduling and post-production and how resilience and creative problem solving shape both the film and his own path as a filmmaker. Welcome, Elliott.

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Elliottt Hasler (01:03.812)

Thanks for having me on the show.

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Cameron Woodward (01:06.092)

Yeah, it's my pleasure. So in my research, I saw that you started writing this film at 18. Can you tell me about the film and then how did you translate that early creative vision into a production plan that felt achievable for an indie team?

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Elliottt Hasler (01:22.052)

Yes, so just a little background about the film. it's Vindication Swim is the true story of Mercedes Gleitz, who in 1927, she became the first British woman to swim the English Channel. it's sort of this film about her sort of endurance, her resilience, overcoming the sort of societal barriers that women faced in the 1920s, you know, continue to face today. But, you know, it was even sort of more prominent in Mercedes era and the difficulties she faced both on land and against Mother Nature in the water, you know, it's kind of achieve her dreams and swim the English Channel. So that's sort of the crux of the film, essentially. Then yeah, that's correct. I started writing about Mercedes at around the age of 18, sort of put in the script together.

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 In terms of sort of making something that was feasible for an indie film that I mean, it was never really feasible for an indie film. You know, I think we sort of were quite naive, in a sense, when we began it, which was a good thing, really, because I think if we weren't, we never would have attempted it. Because as you say, everything was filmed out in the English Channel, there was no No water tanks, no blue screens, not even any body doubles. Kirsten Callahan who plays Mercedes, she did all her own swimming for the film, having trained for about three or four months before we started shooting. you know, it was a real feat of insurance making the film as well. You know, it was a tough shoot over the course of about three years and COVID right in the middle of that as well. So it was a very difficult one. And yeah, I mean, we never really, you know, we just sort of went on and got on with it really, which I think if we hadn't have done that, we would never really have finished it or even attempted it in the first place.

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Cameron Woodward (02:49.602)

I can't imagine calling the insurance provider saying, well, we're gonna swim in the English channel. So that's really awesome. So there was a sort of like naivety, but ultimately like you persevered and you pushed through it. I mean, the story is super ambitious. So is the film. How did you balance sort of faithfulness to the history? And maybe you can tell us more about the history within the practicalities of making it happen. Maybe tell us the story of what it was like to actually put this production together

and maybe how it was unique for you to direct it in open water compared to some of the other directorial work that you've done.

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Elliottt Hasler (03:26.284)

I mean, because it's all set in 1927, the sort of period aspect of making it was a challenge in and of itself, you know, on an indie level, that's a difficult thing to pull off. We know we sort of looked at creative ways of coming around, you know, figuring out how to do that in the same way that we looked at the water scenes and sort of at creative ways of overcoming those challenges as well. But yeah, I mean, the land stuff turned out to be a hell of a lot easier than it was going out to sea and, know, shooting in the open ocean. But yeah, I mean, sort of

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terms the historical accuracy of it, pretty much the story stays very truthful to what actually happened, especially the seaset scenes, the swimming sequences and stuff. Those were very truthful in how we wanted to tell them that was it was very important to us that we kind of keep those as authentic as possible. That sort of bled into the fact that we're filming for real in the English Channel where she would have swum and obviously what we're filming we're trying to make as accurate to what actually happened as well.

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You know, the acting and sort of the directing of it kind of goes out the window a little bit when you're out there because everything is real. So you're sort of, it was almost like documentary filmmaking in a sense, you know, you have Kirsten in the water and then there's the guys in the boat and everything sort of feels as it would have felt when Mercedes swam it. for me, you know, cause I, I DPD it as well. So for me, sort of shooting and directing it, it was sort of like, you can kind of point the camera in a reactive sense and just follow what's sort of naturally occurring on set, which is quite an interesting.

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thing as opposed to the shots on land because those are obviously very choreographed, very staged. You had the extras and they came on at certain times and that kind of thing. But obviously you can't do that with the sea and with boats and all these different moving parts. So it was a really interesting difference really and something I'd never attempted before. I'd never shot out at sea and no one who worked on the film had shot out at sea before either. So it was a big learning curve and a big challenge. Sometimes we'd go out, we'd get maybe two shots in the can and the wind would change and the tide would change.

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come in and abandon the shoot that day. And that was a regular occurrence. You know, that's why it took three years to make. It was just too difficult to complete it all in one summer, like we originally intended. you know, the water gets too cold. So we had to wait another year and then come out again and again. you know, there are a lot, a lot of challenges on this film.

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Cameron Woodward (05:39.436)

That's really what I want to dig into. That's very, very interesting. like, as I read about the production, you know, 30 days in the open water, how many days overall for this film on land, you know, in a studio or practically on, you know, just in a normal setup and then versus the water sequences.

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Elliottt Hasler (05:56.476)

I don't think I ever broke it down just because it was such a long period that we were out filming. never really put it down, but I think it was around roughly sort of a hundred days shooting total. yeah, I think everyone kind of lost track of the amount of days we were out on the to be honest.

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Cameron Woodward (06:11.726)

so what kind of planning went into like making it happen for 30 days? What were the logistics for this sort of water-based production? How did you handle insurance? How big was the crew? What was the setup? Who were the heroes of making this thing happen? Obviously kudos to your, to your lead actress for like jumping in the water, making the swim herself, but, yeah, on the production side of it, what did it look like?

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Elliottt Hasler (06:33.507)

Uh, it was, it was pretty small outfit really. We wanted something very mobile and very, very small really to be able to get out there on short notice, you know, the tide could change and the wind could change so quickly. So we needed to kind of be ready to go out whenever the conditions allowed really. Um, so yeah, we had sort of a, there was a range of different support boats. So we had sort of a big support boat that the cast, you know, were loaded onto and the crew and that was driven out. And then we had sort of an outboard rib.

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that was sort of a safety that could zip around a lot quicker and sort of pick people up if need be and that sort of thing. And then obviously the boat you see in the film, the wooden rowing boat with the actors in as well. So every time we went out, it was the same sort of arrangement. had those, then a range of lifeguards and safety people on board the boat as well at any given time. So, you know, we had to take safety very seriously. We're filming out.

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in the English channel, there's a lot that can go wrong. a lot did go wrong. I thankfully no one was ever hurt making it, but it was not an easy, safe shoot in terms of how regular filmmaking works. We were out there two miles out into the sea and the weather could change like the snap of a finger. So it was pretty sketchy at times, but that was the fun of it really. And that was, I think what lends itself to the authenticity you see in the film. Everything's real. You're immersed in the channel in all its different conditions with Mercedes.

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Cameron Woodward (07:56.207)

Elliott, how did you keep the crew and the cast's spirits up over this really long marathon of a production?

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Elliottt Hasler (08:04.995)

That was a challenge. think by the end of it, we'd all had enough of being out at sea. because it was so long, think we all, everyone really got to know each other very well. There was a real camaraderie, a real sort of family spirit, essentially that I think carried us through that long production. We had COVID in the middle as well, so people weren't doing too much in terms of getting out and working on other projects. that worked in our favor because the actors weren't booked up going off and doing other stuff. We were able to kind of keep them.

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for vindication swim and get everyone out at sea. But yeah, it was difficult and there were certainly very trying days, especially when it sort of took around two, three hours to get everything loaded onto the boat and then another hour to go out there. So if you will go out there and you get only two shots in the can, know, it's such a long process to actually get out there and then for it to just be over so quickly. But those days were very demoralizing when you come back in, you you've got next to nothing.

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know, shot. yeah, those days were tough. But sometimes you go out there and it was absolutely immaculate. know, the sea was flat, sun was shining, you know, we'd get tons of footage in the can. And those days were great, you know, everyone would like jump off the boat and go swimming afterwards and stuff like that. So there was some really fun times as well.

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Cameron Woodward (09:17.974)

What was the, I haven't yet seen the film, but what was the conditions like for Mercedes when she did this back in the 30s?

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Elliottt Hasler (09:25.613)

So she took eight attempts to swim the English Channel. So she sort of camp against all sorts of conditions, literally everything the channel could throw at her really from storms to jellyfish to the currents, tides, all sorts of things really. And we tried to capture as much of that as possible in the film. there's sort of, there's three distinct swims in the film. So you have one.

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where it's very, very choppy, very stormy conditions. Another where it's sort of immaculate, dead calm, like flat as a mill pond. And then another where it's gray, flat and freezing cold where she swam in October. you kind of get a sort of view of the channel in all of its different moods, really. The most challenging one was the rough swim. That was very difficult to film. Obviously, you know, being out there in rough conditions is obviously a lot more dangerous and therefore that was...

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much more challenging. was very difficult filming that one, as was the cold water as well, actually. Just finding those conditions where you sort of have flat seas and grey skies was very difficult. And we kind of found the best way of capturing that was to get out there in the calm before the storm and sort of get those shots very quickly before a storm rolls in. And there was one time where we did misjudge that actually, and the storm did roll in. And one of our producers was momentarily lost at sea, which was...

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That was the worst moment of the production. yeah, things could have gone very wrong, but thankfully they didn't. But it was a very strong warning from the English channel, take me seriously because I can kill this production if I want. we did give the sea the utmost respect after that.

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Cameron Woodward (11:00.782)

And so for you, Elliott, you have produced cinema before. Tell me about your team. Like, do you typically work with the same producers? you work with, like, how did you sort of build your cast and crew? What's sort of your philosophy on sort of building up a team around these stories that you're, that you're creating

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Elliottt Hasler (11:18.787)

I mean, really, it's sort of people who, are passionate about the project and dedicated to it really, you know, which thankfully we had with, you know, enough everybody on the film, everyone was just so enthralled by Mercedes story and really wanted to tell it and get it out on the screen because, you know, she is a figure who's been forgotten for what she achieved, you know, as a woman as an athlete, that in that era is incredible and deserves to be.

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remembered. So that was a big thing with this film really, was finding a team who were passionate about this story. And we really did, you know, sort of had this snowball effect. We started out as a very small outfit. And then over the three years, more people came on, we had different producers come on. And, you know, we really put this shared goal of celebrating this extraordinary woman.

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Cameron Woodward (11:58.659)

Where did you first learn about the story?

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Elliottt Hasler (12:00.931)

I just stumbled across it actually. I'd never heard of Mercedes before, but we share the same hometown of Brighton in the UK. So I should have known about her, but I didn't. And then I stumbled across it, read more about her and I thought, wow, you know, this would translate very nicely as a film. And then here we are.

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Cameron Woodward (12:18.242)

That's fantastic. So Elliott, mean, at the scale of the production that you're working on for this film, I would imagine you were wearing many hats. You mentioned you were the cinematographer as well, which is great. You sort of were able to tell the story with your camera movements and how you captured it. But I would imagine that you also in part played role of producer and, you know, discoverer of this story. How did you manage your shooting schedule and budget while still aiming for something that really captured the sort of cinematic scale you were looking for?

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Elliottt Hasler (12:46.376)

yeah, I mean, I kind of ethos with the whole thing was to do it for as low a budget as possible, would make it look as big a budget as possible. You know, we wanted that kind of glossy finished look on a low budget. so it was, you know, it was very difficult to achieve that. And, you know, a lot of work went into how can we get the most out of this for the limited resources that we have. And, you know, we'd sort of did things like we, we rang up.

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vintage car clubs, know, COVID was on, so there wasn't the sort of shows they usually go to and we said, you know, would you like to feature your car in the movie? We can't really pay you, we'll give you lunch, we'll cover your petrol and all that, your gas. And nine times out of 10, they said, you know, don't worry about it, we'll cover the gas, we'll bring our own lunch, we just want to be involved. And, you know, was things like that. There's a real kind of collaborative community spirit, I think, in indie filmmaking. And that really shone through in this one. But yeah, you know, it was a very tight budget and it was a challenge to...

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to bring such a grand story to the screen.

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Cameron Woodward (13:42.19)

That's an amazing story. Who are your MVPs on your production side for pulling off some of those awesome feats?

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Elliottt Hasler (13:49.251)

The producers, they did a great job ringing up people and putting in the graft of maximizing what we could get in front of the camera. The whole team really was fantastic on this, right from the producers at the start all the way through to the post-production people at the end and everyone in between. It was a real collaborative effort to bring this story to the screen.

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Cameron Woodward (14:10.072)

When it was all said and Elliott, what was the production budget on it?

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Elliottt Hasler (14:15.048)

it was very small. I'll say that it was, know, sort of, yeah, nothing like the kind of budgets you see in Hollywood. It was very minimal. That's for sure.

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Cameron Woodward (14:27.182)

I think you've had an incredible outcome considering the constraints and that's really wonderful. So you also then spent a year in post-production. What were the creative or technical challenges in really shaping the final cut, especially with so much presumably water footage? Some days you get a lot of footage, some days I'm sure you got a lot more. How did you really make this thing come together in post?

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Elliottt Hasler (14:50.078)

I think that the main thing, the main reason why it took a year was the sound design. We couldn't record any audio when we were out at sea. we sort of had a blank canvas really to work from, which is great because it can be designed however we want it to do, but it's also not so great because it means everything has to be created from scratch. a ton of work went into creating the soundscape for the film. Essentially, we had a lot of ADR with the actors. Essentially, they all had to recreate their performances again in the studio and match it to what we'd shot out at sea.

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It took a hell of a long time really to have that materialize and to really build that up. then we had a great color grading team as well. Obviously we did the poster at Warner Brothers Delaney Lee. So we had fantastic people working on it. They've done sort of James Bond, Harry Potter, these sort of incredible franchises. And we were lucky enough to have them working on this. And we had Asa Shoal who did the grading on Mission Impossible, the crown. He did a fantastic job in kind of...

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marrying up what is essentially three years worth of footage out at sea and making that all look like one homogenous sort of journey across the channel. So, know, it was a challenge and he really rose to the occasion.

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Cameron Woodward (15:57.635)

love that you got that colorist. mean, like, I don't know how to even describe it. That's the beauty of a great colorist, but that's like a quintessentially British color, like between those two projects as well. And that like really captures the spirit, the spirit of, of, of home. think that's awesome that that happened. How did you get involved with the studio? How did you make that connection as a independent filmmaker?

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Elliottt Hasler (16:19.502)

So that was through one of our producers, Sally Humphreys. So she came on the production sort of as we were wrapping up shooting and said, you know, what are your plans for post-production? to be honest, we hadn't really thought too deeply about it at that stage. And she said, look, I'll come on and I'll handle your post-production and sort of set all that stuff up. So she was the one who got us Delaney Lee and they came on and yeah, they were incredible to work with. They're fantastic team.

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Cameron Woodward (16:42.22)

Were you fundraising throughout this whole process to bring the project to a conclusion?

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Elliottt Hasler (16:47.274)

Yeah, essentially, so we sort of began with a very limited budget and then it did sort of, it grew over the course of the film. So we had to bring in some more money and stuff like that. I mean, the post-production was a big expense. It was essentially sort of a 50-50 split of production and then post-production in terms of the financing.

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Cameron Woodward (17:05.708)

Yeah, and then once you had this film completed, what's the story been like on the distribution side, getting this thing seen by audiences?

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Elliottt Hasler (17:12.758)

I mean, that's been a massive challenge. You we finished the shooting in in 2022 and the summer of 2022. So it's taken a long time to get around and actually bring this film out. We sort of sat on it for the best part of a year. We were taking it to all these different distributors and stuff like that and saying,

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what can we do? And then they were sort of like, oh, you know, it's not for us, you know, we're working on bigger, bigger titles at the moment and things like that. So, you know, we sort of, didn't think we were going to get the film released. It was, it was really, really difficult to get it out. It's just the nature of kind of the landscape at the moment. But eventually we found a fantastic team in the UK, Picnic Entertainment, and they took it on and they distributed it UK and Ireland and it did phenomenally well. You know, we were expecting maybe one or two weeks in theatres. We ended up having an 18 week run. So it just showed the sort of appetizer.

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public had for this story. And it's something we're now looking to replicate when we release in North America this fall. So yeah, I mean, it's been a long journey, but we've got a great team now handling the North American side. had a great team handling the British side. So, you know, it's all come together very nicely after what has been a very, very long journey.

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Cameron Woodward (18:17.24)

Elliott, your last projects really sort of touch on narratives that are focused on sort of resilience and recognition of these types of people, these everyday people that do these extraordinary things. Themes that really resonate even beyond sport, whether that's thinking about World War II or beyond. How do you feel like those same things play out in sort of your own journey as an indie filmmaker bringing a story like this to life?

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Elliottt Hasler (18:44.043)

Yeah, I mean, I think those themes are definitely relevant, know, determination, perseverance, resilience, all that, all that sort of thing. Obviously on a lesser scale than having, you know, swum the channel or survived the second world war, you know, I mean, those are sort of really extraordinary feats, but obviously on a smaller scale, I think those themes do bleed into the nature of independent filmmaking as well. They certainly did on Vindication Swim, but yeah, I'm definitely drawn to those stories, ordinary people who...

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achieve these extraordinary things, know, that's something that really speaks to me. think we see a lot of films about, you know, these these legendary figures of presidents and kings and all that sort of stuff. But I think honing in on those sort of ordinary people who do this and these sort of incredible feats. I think those are the stories that really kind of draw me in.

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Cameron Woodward (19:31.704)

That's awesome. So looking back, this has been a long process. Congratulations on all of the success of the film. What would you pass on to other filmmakers or producers who want to tackle a big, ambitious human story without the studio backing?

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Elliottt Hasler (19:47.357)

I would say don't be afraid to go out there and try it. We managed to achieve this without any industry backing really. We were just a team of dedicated people who went out there and wanted to tell this story. And that would be my advice really is to just go out and do it. You don't necessarily need huge, huge budgets. Obviously there's creative ways you can overcome those decisions.

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and challenges, which we did on Vindication Swim. This should have cost a lot more than it did, but if you think about it deeply enough, you'll come up with solutions, I think, for getting around those problems.

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Cameron Woodward (20:23.662)

That's awesome. Elliott, thank you so much. Where can people find you and learn more about your work and like really follow along as you continue to work on new stories and movies?

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Elliottt Hasler (20:31.563)

Now that they can follow me on Instagram, just my name, Elliott Hasler, or equally they can follow the Vindication Swim page as well. Yeah, so either of those.

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Cameron Woodward (20:40.002)

That's awesome. And then where can people watch this film?

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Elliottt Hasler (20:43.079)

So it's releasing theatrically. We open in New York City on the 17th of October and then we've got a select number of screenings across North America after that, followed by a full digital rollout in November. So yeah, it'll be available everywhere soon.

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Cameron Woodward (20:58.296)

Fantastic, Elliott. Congratulations. What a beautiful, beautiful film. And I really appreciate you sharing a bit about the production and the experience of making this film.

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Elliottt Hasler (21:07.463)

Thank you very much, it was great to speak with you