The Producer’s Role in a Changing Film Economy with Tom Butterfield

Welcome back to On Production, a podcast brought to you by Wrapbook. Today I'm joined by Tom Butterfield, a producer and production executive with more than 17 years of experience working across both the UK and US film industries. Tom is the principal of Culmination Productions and his career has spanned nearly every kind of production environment from Hollywood studios and independent production companies to the UK Film Council. That range of experience has given him a deep understanding of what it takes to get a film from script to screen, no matter where it's made. His credits include films like Cellar Door, The Critic, Die in a Gunfight, The Banker, and An Actor Prepares. These are projects that showcase his ability to bring diverse stories to life across genres and production scales. He's also a member of the Producers Guild of America and a national signatory of IATSE, reflecting his commitment to the creative, financial, and human sides of production.

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In this conversation, we'll talk with Tom about the realities of producing today, from assessing scripts and packaging talent to navigating financing models, building strong creative partnerships and adapting to an evolving production landscape. I'm really thrilled to have you on Tom today. Let's get into it.

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Tom Butterfield (01:19.002)

No, mate, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

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Cameron Woodward (01:21.516)

Yeah, so you've worked across nearly every corner of this industry. I mentioned a second ago studios and dependents, and then you've even worked with some government bodies. I'm really curious, how have those varied environments shaped your understanding of what it really takes to get a film made?

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Tom Butterfield (01:40.114)

That's a great question off the back. So I think it's, to be clear, I've never worked within a studio. I think there is a difference. I've worked with studios. But that being said, I think the key to it is understanding what that entity wants. So the politics and the internal functions of a US studio or streamer

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is very specific and it's its own skill set and it's one that I'm continuing to learn. What they're after is very different. And the other end of the spectrum entirely was my time at the UK Film Council, which is now the BFI or part of the BFI, where we were really essentially free money. Our remit was really about finding

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new creative voices, about supporting upcoming artists. It was a very different thing, right? I think the best way I can describe it to you is actually with an anecdote. So the first job I had here was at a company called Zied Perry in LA, and they were an unbelievably successful production and management company. They did the American Pie and Final Destination franchises, which was all printing money, really.

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Cameron Woodward (03:04.152)

Fantastic IP, so to speak.

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Tom Butterfield (03:05.891)

Yeah, I mean, unbelievable. And the budgets were very appropriate. And they made huge amounts of money. And I went from that to the UK Film Council, where my first production meeting, the head of the fund I was in at the time, commented about one of the movie of ours that was about to come out and said, look, if this thing makes 10 quid in the box office, I'm going to be thrilled. So what the fuck are you talking about? That makes no sense to me.

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Cameron Woodward (03:31.074)

Yeah.

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Tom Butterfield (03:35.566)

So it really depends, right? And I think the really important, and I don't know if it's really kind of taught, it's something that I think you kind of learn, is understanding the people you're asking for money from, what do they want? I think that's such an important question. And a lot of that only comes with experience as you.

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You aged me slightly with your intro. I've been doing this a little while. you know, kind of understanding what that is and how that changes, I think is hugely important.

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Cameron Woodward (04:15.704)

Tom, actually, I want to know the origin lore. Like, how did you get into this business? 

Tom Butterfield (04:21.335)

yeah, sure. Well, so the longer answer is my godmother was a film critic in London, and I went to boarding school in England, and she would take me out of school and we would watch movies together. And I fell in love with movies really from that. But in terms of actually getting into the business, I did film school in the UK. And I'm very lucky. I've had a green card my whole life through my father.

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And I just knew that I wanted to come to LA. And so even before I graduated university, but I didn't even hang around for graduation, I left immediately. And I moved here and I did a program at UCLA, a producing program. It like kind of a two, three month summer thing. And I met someone there who was one of our lecturers.

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and just said, look, I'm looking for a job or an internship or whatever you can give me. And two weeks later, she phoned me and said, listen, my boss, who was the head of the company, is looking for a new assistant. You'll probably last a week, but you've got 45 minutes to get here. I mean, quite candidly, Kevin, I'm pretty sure I got the job because I had an English accent. And he liked the idea of kind of it sounded sophisticated, know, picking up his phone.

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Cameron Woodward (05:47.246)

Americans are such suckers for an English accent.

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Tom Butterfield (05:50.929)

I won't comment on that, but...

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So, yes, that's how I got started. But it's so funny, it's so interesting talking to other producers and stuff and just we've all kind of come at it from our own weird way. There's no one way of doing it. And it's interesting when people can ask me for advice. It's hard to answer actually. Yeah.

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Cameron Woodward (06:15.97)

You have to survive. Yeah, everyone in the industry has survivorship bias. Regressing back to sort of my first question, though, because you were mentioning how funding comes together in these different regions. Having produced in both the UK and the US, this is sort of the perfect culmination of your work being UK, US.

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Cameron Woodward (06:39.298)

just as an integrated person in this way, but what are the key differences in how projects come together in each market, particularly around like financing and creative development. So for instance, does producing a UK based film like The Critic present a very different process from an American movie like Cellar Door?

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Tom Butterfield (06:59.835)

So, I don't think the, how you find material, I don't think that changes. That's about relationships, that's about writers and lit agents both in the UK and Europe and in the US. think you can, I always, it always felt to me it was about scope. British films have always just felt a little smaller.

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And so kind of trying to go after a US studio or US streamer for money just felt that kind of bit further away. If I'm realistic, it really felt like you were going to have to do what we call the independent financing model, which I'm happy to kind of give you, go down that rabbit hole with you if you're interested. As opposed to the states where everything just feels a bit bigger.

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and therefore kind of trying to attack a studio or a streamer for your budget feels more attainable. So with that in mind, it then kind of changes the type of stories you're looking for, right? It's more about, let's be big because we want to make a big American movie. And therefore that starts with the script and what's on the page versus a British film.

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which generally just feels a little smaller and therefore more attainable from a budget perspective. I would also say comedy is very different. I'm in the process of doing some romantic comedy and romantic dramas at the moment and I think that there's a big distinction. The Brits make romantic dramas. If you look at the fantastic stuff from working title and what made Hugh Grant famous and those type of movies.

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they really, there is real drama. Four weddings, it says it in the title. Someone's gonna die at some point. Whereas American movies, it's true romantic comedy. You know that they're never really in jeopardy. You always feel pretty safe and it's really kind of leans more into the comedy. For example, I think, know, Brits cannot write road movies. It's just not our sensibility.

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Tom Butterfield (09:28.868)

Whereas on the flip side, I have yet to read a really good period drama from an American. So it's kind of, you know, it's also understanding those strengths and weaknesses. But it's, yeah, it's just about scope, I think, is the primary thing.

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Cameron Woodward (09:48.832)

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was a pretty nice American period drama, I thought.

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Tom Butterfield (09:53.252)

That's true, that's true, but I mean, if we're talking about one of the best screenwriters that's ever existed, you know.

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Cameron Woodward (09:59.791)

It's a uniquely American take. So, okay, though, you know, taking your film, The Critic, as an example, what did the development and packaging process look like, especially, you know, navigating and adaptation, creative shifts, and then casting changes? What were some of the biggest turning points in getting that film to camera?

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Tom Butterfield (10:20.528)

Yeah, look, I mean, I think the critic is this is a good example of all independent film, which is to say it's really three dimensional chess. You've got to line up the budget and how much you can raise versus getting actors to come on board and be available at the time you need them, as well as, you know, underlying IP and development and all of those things. So all of that has to has to merge at the same time. And that

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is that can take years and know, the lead producer on that film, Julian, he was struggling with that beast for years even before I came on to help. so in that particular instance, you you had the original book and you had to own that book, had to the IP, own the IP. And then we had obviously an incredible writer.

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do our rewrite and quite honestly, he was a very big reason as to why we got the level of cast we got because of his experience and writing films like Closer, an unbelievable writing talent. So that really was a huge hook for us. The budget ended up being between five and 10 million pounds, which was not bad for a period movie.

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but it's not great and so you you're asking actors to do it for less than they're to that immediately causes friction because you're dealing with reps who don't want them off the market getting paid less but really the linchpin of that was Ian McKellen so once you had a Patrick Marber script

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and you had Ian McKellen attached as your lead, suddenly other actors were like, that sounds, I want to be a part of that. And we're willing to kind of drop their price to fit within our budget and make it work. And then it was then, as I mentioned, it was really about timing and when were people available to make it work. But it also put a huge strain on production. I mean, we really could have done with

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Tom Butterfield (12:46.4)

million dollars more. Producers get screwed, their fees get held back, they get kind of diminished because you need more days and the only place it can come from is the producing fee.

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But I would say in that particular project, what really kind of launched us was McKellen.

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Cameron Woodward (13:16.8)

That's awesome. your other film, Dying a Gunfight, as I understand it, it underwent a very lengthy and complex development process before ultimately going into production. What is the story there? And then what insights did that experience provide about managing a project's creative evolution from and then also from its financial viability over time?

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Tom Butterfield (13:27.653)

Yes.

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Tom Butterfield (13:40.728)

Yeah. So yes, so that film was in development, I think in total for almost 10 years, I was not part of all of that. So originally, it was a blacklist script that an amazing executive and now producer who runs John Krasinski company, Alison Seeger found she was working for Mark Gordon's company at the time.

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and brought it in and originally I believe it was supposed to be kind of a much more comedy type thing and Zac Efron was attached to be the lead. And then for various reasons that fell apart and I got sent the script as just something to read and loved it, really, really enjoyed it. It's essentially a Romeo and Juliet story but I just love the kind of the vibe of it and the world of it and

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So I met the writers and got on well, met Allison and then had to get approval from Mark Gordon to be able to kind of take it out and give it a go, which he did. But even after that, I mean, we cast the two leads in that film probably five times until we eventually landed on Diego and Alex for various reasons. Like we'd have some people attach and...

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We'd then try and get it sold and then an actor would drop out or the financing wouldn't quite come together. That in itself was a four year process. There were various, very cool and I think would have been awesome versions of the movie, kind of young actor duos that would have got done. And it was also, where are you gonna film it in order to make the most money? We prepped it in Romania, we prepped it in Chicago, we prepped it, ultimately we ended up shooting it in...

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Canada. So all of those things combined kind of made it take a long period of time. But what I knew to be true was that the script was really great. And it always got a very positive response. Even even when an actor passed or a financier decided ultimately not to invest. It was never about the material. And that that's the huge difference.

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Tom Butterfield (16:07.821)

Right, so I think, know, I've definitely, especially earlier in my career, I was so desperate to get things done. I would jump onto films as a producer just to jump onto them. And that's a mistake. because, you know, every film I've done has taken a long period of time to make. And if you're not getting out of bed,

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Cameron Woodward (16:27.096)

and

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Tom Butterfield (16:36.779)

excited to push that project forward every day, then you're not the right person. And it's unfair to the project and to the other people involved if you're not giving it everything. And so I've got much better as I've got older being like, look, I love it, or I love the read or I love the people involved, but I'm just not the person because it's a real war of attrition and gunfight was worth the...

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Fight. No pun intended.

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Cameron Woodward (17:07.726)

Tom, I think that's such an insightful piece of advice for anybody in any career, which is that any amount of work will be a mountain to climb. So before you start climbing, make sure you want to climb the mountain. mean, it's like...

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Tom Butterfield (17:22.871)

Yeah, yeah. I look, I mean, it's it's you could absolutely coast. I mean, there are certain things, certain, you know, and you can attach yourself to something and be like, yeah, I'm working on it. And, you know, and again, I definitely particularly in my earlier career, I was I was definitely susceptible to that, because also having fingers and so many pies, hopefully something gets made and hopefully then you get paid. Right. Because we don't get paid until films go into production. I think it's a very misunderstood part of

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my career choice and particularly on the indie side, you do not get paid until films get made. A lot of other people get paid to develop things, get paid option fees, get paid, you know, whatever it may be. We generally do not and it's something that frankly needs to change. it's, so with that, you're kind of going, I've to grab this because it might go. And are you actually bringing real value to the process?

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And that's super important.

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Cameron Woodward (18:24.334)

So these days when you're assessing a new project, whether it's, you you've done prestige driven films like The Banker, what for you tells you that a script is not only strong creatively, but then also very producible to this, like, to the points you've been making? And then, you know, how do you think through, okay, this script or this product can realistically move into financing and production?

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Tom Butterfield (18:50.465)

Yeah, so obviously it will start really with personal taste, which kind of goes to what I was just saying in terms of if I don't love it, then I'm not going to get behind it. And I'm pretty genre agnostic as a viewer. I'm not a huge fan of hardcore horror. That's just not my thing. But I also

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I'm very aware of what I think the marketplace is looking for. And so that definitely curtail me into particular genres. So I have a business partner who's in foreign sales. So we are talking constantly between ourselves and also with distributors around the world as to what are you looking for? What do want? And generally that

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It's not surprising. It's action stroke action thrillers. It's horror. I think romantic comedies are making a bit of a resurgence, which would be terrific. And, you know, period dramas and those type of things are harder. I think, you know, the TV space has done an incredible job of really kind of filling that hole. And distributors and financiers are just finding it much harder to take a swing theatrically on.

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on those type of movies. So I'm also a kid of the 80s and 90s where, you know, action with the diehards and the lethal weapons and the point breaks and all of those really fun, just entertaining action movies kind of really took center stage along with, you know, kind of the rise of great romantic comedies. So I'm thrilled.

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to work in that space because it's just what I grew up with and what I enjoy as a viewer. But again, it seems to be what we're being told distributors are looking for. again, I think that that's just for someone who's maybe starting out or earlier in their career, it's not rocket science.

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Cameron Woodward (20:54.36)

Hmm.

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Tom Butterfield (21:08.108)

You look at box offices around the world, you can see what's working and what's not working. Now, of course, there are some outliers that suddenly explode and whatever it may be. You you have that big Sundance buy for $20 million in some tiny indie film. But I think, you know, you have to think about singles and doubles to use a baseball analogy. If you hit a home run, that's fucking great. But to survive, singles and doubles are just fine.

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Cameron Woodward (21:38.039)

Yep. Yep, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it is interesting. like, I am a kid of the eighties as well, the kid of the nineties. I like what I'm picking up from you, some of these types of stories that maybe have more action right now. But like, I think about like movies when I was a kid, like searching for Bobby Fisher or like Indian in the Cupboard. And like, I don't see those movies right now, but in my life, I've got a bunch of

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six year olds, seven year olds, eight year olds who are like loving those movies when I share it with them. So like, I'm really hopeful to start seeing these types of stories that the whole family can enjoy. It is just maybe not even a massive budget film, but just like a good wholesome movie. I think that'd be really good. on the the romantic comedy side you were mentioning or like the period dramas. I'd love to start seeing those stories. And I think from what I've seen is like a

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a really nice movement of indie features sort of coming down the pipeline over the next couple of years, which should be great.

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Tom Butterfield (22:36.62)

Yeah, I mean, look, to your point, I love searching for Bobby Fisher. It's a great movie. I just don't see a theatrical model for those films anymore. I mean, again, every now and again, maybe, but I just don't see financiers are willing to take that swing. Now, streamers, sure, because they can, but it's...

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Tom Butterfield (23:07.374)

For me it's more about, I think Hollywood has kind of moved away a bit from entertainment and got into a bit of a lecturing place. And I think, know, my ex-wife and I, used to talk all the time of, it's Friday night, the kids are in bed.

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It's eight o'clock. my God, maybe we can fit in a movie before we just pass out. What are we gonna watch? And we would go onto every possible app streaming platform you could find. And ultimately it would end in a two hour conversation which turned into a fight because there was nothing good. And you'd watch two episodes of Friends and go to bed. And I think, you know,

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Tom Butterfield (24:06.703)

What I, my company, and what I'm kind of shouting from the rooftops is where is that, well I kind of coined Friday Night Wine Fair. Where is that movie or those movies that you are willing to spend your money to pay for a babysitter, to go out for dinner, to come see a movie, pay the ticket price, get popcorn. I mean it's a $200 thing. I have to make a movie good enough.

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Tom Butterfield (24:36.62)

and entertaining enough for you to be willing to do that. And I think to me, in my opinion, those are in the action-action thriller space or in the rom-com space because both genders enjoy them. And I'm not trying to lecture about anything. I'm just trying to entertain you. And that I think is maybe where we've got a little lost. And frankly, where TV has come on so strong in the past decade.

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Tom Butterfield (25:06.778)

and to get your butt off the sofa is harder than ever. But that's a fun challenge.

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Cameron Woodward (25:13.568)

So to this point about just, you know, entertaining audiences, that takes great talent, great actors, and you've had the opportunity, Tom, to work with some remarkable actors. So like you mentioned Ian McKellen, but then also Samuel L. Jackson in The Banker, and one of my favorites, and I think America's favorites, as they've been able to watch him work, is Jeremy Irons in, you know, in Act Prepares, and of course, you know, Laurence Fishburne in Cellar Door. Like these are phenomenal artists.

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Cameron Woodward (25:42.99)

How do you approach the process of attaching and working with talent from both a creative standpoint and as a part of a film's financing strategy?

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Tom Butterfield (25:52.728)

Yeah, I've been super lucky. You're absolutely right. think so to my point, my daily struggle is with my business partner because he only cares about value. Right? Is this actor going to be valuable enough for a foreign distributor to want to give us money to buy the movie? Of course, he has a creative bone in his body, but ultimately that's what he cares about.

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And I, as a producer, need to find a balance between the best actor and the most financially viable actor. And then the director on the other end is all about creative and wanting the best actor for that role. So I have to kind of sit between those two worlds. And a lot of the time they don't match up. Right? So within that, I think...

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you know, it's incumbent on me as a producer to have as good an understanding of value versus worth as possible. It's, it's kind of horrendous, but it's like trading baseball cards. It's, you know, certain actors have more value than others in certain genres and the foreign market, which is really how the crux of how you build a finance plan.

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is a little behind and they don't really care about TV success in the way that we would want or hope. So you have to have your finger on that pulse. And if you notice the actors you've just mentioned to me, they're amazing, wonderful, incredible actors, but they are older, all of them. So they all have a pedigree. They've all been in theatrical films before when theatrical really meant something.

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And so, you know, attaching that type of talent is always helpful. The problem comes when you want to attach, you know, you've got a script that has someone who's 25 to 35, because, you know, there are a ton of actors who work in that space, who that age group, but which of them actually have real value, that list is pretty small. And their reps know it. So they're charging you a fortune.

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Tom Butterfield (28:14.315)

The actor probably knows it and so can be very picky about what they choose. So, look, mean, ultimately, Cameron, it comes down to the quality of material. I do believe if you have a great script, it will find its way through. I do believe that. It may take you a long time, but I think, you know, actors are looking for great stuff.

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And I think now more than ever, if you want top level talent, it has to be a director who is recognizable on the street, right? And can really, one box office failure now for a piece of talent could be the end of a career. Whereas in previous versions of the industry, that wasn't necessarily the case.

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Cameron Woodward (29:15.246)

I mean, it comes down to trust, and that's really where my next question leads, because you have to build that trust for those actors, because you're right, the stakes are high for them, the stakes are high for you, the stakes are high for everyone. And so I guess my curiosity is that from your sort of producing worldview, how do you think about...

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your relationships, especially with directors and financiers and creative collaborators, like looking across a decade of projects from, you know, Welcome to Me to Sellador, what have you found most important in building trust and maintaining strong partnerships throughout the life of a film?

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Tom Butterfield (29:55.906)

It kind depends on who you're talking to. do think, you know, I can have really good creative conversations with directors because I have watched so many fucking movies and obscure ones too, right? I mean, that was one of the, I think the only benefit of going to film school was frankly watching films that I never would have watched normally, but it has meant.

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that when I sit down with creative people, writers and directors who have seen all of those films because they love them and look for them for inspiration, I can be on that wavelength. And I think, you know, being able to have those type of conversations so that, know, you have earned a right to sit at that creative table. you know, for a long time, I kind of stopped watching movies. I was so busy trying to make them, I kind of stopped watching them.

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And now, I try and go to the cinema a couple of times a week. Even if it's a film I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna enjoy because I just need to see what else is out there. What are other people making? What's vibing with people? I think that's super important. So you kind of have that side and the creative side and that I think probably bleeds into talking to actors. And also just recognizing your place within the system.

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right, they don't need a second director. Really, that's, think most actors would probably just be happy to know that you're, you know, you're delivering on the money and their agent's not going to phone them, you kind of causing problems. And that you are a problem solver that if they have an issue, can, you're going to do your best to help them solve it. I mean, that's what your job is. It's constant problem solving. But then on the finance side is

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Tom Butterfield (31:56.811)

you're saying you're going to do what you're going to do and arriving on time, you know, making sure money arrives on time. Obviously there are checks and balances in place, whether it's a studio or a bond company or whatever it is, you know, to make sure that you're doing your job properly. And you that that you've got to start small and work your work your way up. I, you know, I really want to get into

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the 30 to $50 million budget space, but I'm very aware that I've never done that before. And so I'm bringing on producing partners who have lived in that space because why would a financier give me $50 million? I mean, you know, it's a lot of money. So I think it's all kind of incumbent on the producer to...

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You really understand that you'll start at the beginning and you finish at the end. I think one of the problems is a lot of people don't actually know what we do because there's so many different versions of us, right? You have producers who are really just financiers or you have a producer who has got a girlfriend who's gonna be in the movie or you have a, you know, I've seen every shape and size of it, but I'm a member of something called Producers United, which is a relatively new,

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kind of organization and there's 270 of us I think now and we actually call ourselves career producers. That's how we try and distinguish ourselves from other producers and that is to say, you know, we start at the beginning, I.e. we find the scripts, we find the IP, we curate it, we nurture it, we develop it, we then find the director, help bring the actors, bring the money through production, through post, through delivery, through marketing, through distribution until the end.

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and you know that that comes with

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Tom Butterfield (34:01.805)

being trusted with a lot of stuff along the way. I don't know if you've probably noticed, but I've always had a producing partner on everything I've And that's for two reasons. One is doing it on your own is really hard. Like really hard. But also you're having someone who you can bounce stuff off and, you know, and get feedback.

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in terms of what your experience has been because especially in the indie world there's a thousand ways of making a movie and it's whilst some of it is the same every time right you have your budget and you have your schedule and those certain things are always the same how it all comes together is always different and having a partner to kind of do that with is always helpful.

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Cameron Woodward (34:55.082)

Super insightful. I mean, you just mentioned Producers United and I had a question along these lines as well, which is that I know that you're a member of both Producers Guild of America and Producers United and you're seeing firsthand how these organizations are responding to an industry that's changing rapidly from ways of streaming to new models of international production. You know, how should the producer think about chasing incentives? You know, there's so much that goes into this. How do you see

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these organizations' roles evolving. Like in one part, Producers United is a fairly new organization. Like it exists in part because the industry is evolving. I'm curious, you know, how do organizations like these or do they have an impact on how producers and crews collaborate today?

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Tom Butterfield (35:43.028)

Yeah, mean, look, the PGA I've been a member of for some time and honestly, that's more about recognition. The producers mark that they give out on films, which again, shows who the lead producers on a film are and make them viable for awards, et cetera. So it's important and it's got a very robust membership, which is great.

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I think I'm also a national IATSE, which is the kind of labour union. That has been incredibly helpful on the indie side because unless you're making something for a very, very, very small budget, you are going to be dealing with the unions and having that relationship, I think, is important. That being said, think, you know,

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There is a real exodus of production, not only from California, but from the United States in general. And unfortunately, union pricing and costing that's associated with it is an issue. And that, along with international tax credits and those sort of things, is really kind of making it hard for someone like myself to look a financier in the face and say,

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this is why I want to make this film in Los Angeles versus making it in Australia. But the producers united, I've kind of jumped in with both feet. One, because again, to my point before about always working with partners, producers have always kind of been slotted against each other, right? We've always kind of been lone wolves. There's only a certain amount of money, only a certain amount of studio slots, all of those things.

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And whilst that's still true, I think there is a community aspect to this particular organization that I absolutely love and really have felt camaraderie in, which is amazing. But it also speaks to really going after a certain number of things that are integral for producing to exist. We need to have health insurance like everyone else. We need to be paid for our work.

we need to get a proper credit for the work we do. All of these things have never been consistent. And again, I think it'd be misunderstood because of people not really understanding what we do. you have, know, obviously some incredibly successful producers, but they really are the tip of the spear comparative to most of us. And also look from a totally institutional standpoint,

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Producers back in the heyday of Hollywood had ownership. They were studio owners back then. Whereas now we really are employees and don't have ownership and really are just getting paid a wage. And as I mentioned before, again, particularly in the indie space, that wage has no union protection. It has no coverage and generally gets decimated when, you know,

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you need to cut costs. it's, if you want to see what AI in our business looks like, it's going to be when producers can't make a living and we all go do something else. And suddenly AI is producing your films and TV shows. And that is a very terrifying place.

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Cameron Woodward (39:25.614)

100%. There is this element of taste and curation that's extremely important from the producer selecting a project, choosing the mountain to climb to then actually driving it and climbing the mountain. To this end, I've got one last question for you, Tom, which is, for emerging producers, hoping to understand, or even for producers who are maybe...

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Cameron Woodward (39:52.213)

you know, they're buttressing towards the budgets and the types of films that you make. You know, for them, hoping to understand how films actually get made from the developing of a script or finding a great script to attaching talent and securing financing, what lessons from your own projects stand out as like the most valuable information to pass along?

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Tom Butterfield (40:14.538)

Yeah, I've been thinking about this one. It's for actually kind of proper practical advice. So look, I think the first one, which is a totally practical thing is really take time and energy and effort in choosing your lawyer.

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because they work for you and they are the one who will do their utmost to protect you. Because again, if you're an indie producer, you're generally having to wear multiple hats and just having someone who's got your back from a legal perspective because the buck normally stops with you.

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for various reasons and so just making sure you have that protection is paramount. So I think that the best lawyer you can afford is really important. I think more on, it's, this job is a relationships game and again how I define success has definitely,

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changed over the years. It was always, you know, I need a film to be a theatrical, then I want it to be financially successful. And of course I want to make my investors their money back. That's paramount. But I've never gone in to make a bad film, but not all of my films are slam dunks. You know, some of them are great, some of them are okay. Some of them have good scenes. So, you know, that's just the nature of it. So what I've really

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realize and and would hope.

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Tom Butterfield (42:02.283)

people here is that it's about the relationships, the director relationships, the actor relationships, crew, you know, and because if you do your job and you do it well and you're nice and you're kind and you're not an asshole and you don't come on set and scream and shout and you know, people will want to work with you again and they'll maybe give you a script that they hadn't previously thought about giving you and you know.

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That to me is where I try and focus. if you've gone to film school, keep in touch with all those people, see what they're up to. I'm getting in a much better habit now of texting someone when they've had success and just being like, hey, saw your movie on the weekend, I thought it was great. For no other reason than just to put that good vibe out there. And...

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because it's hard, man. It's really, I I appreciate we're not curing cancer, but getting an independent film especially, even a studio film these days, getting it made is really hard. And so I think acknowledging people who have managed to climb that mountain, you never know where it's gonna lead to.

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Cameron Woodward (43:24.046)

That's awesome. Tom, thank you so much for your time and your insights. You maybe have a more critical eye towards your films than I do. I think you've made some really wonderful projects with some really wonderful people. So thank you for joining me and sharing a bit of your story.