The Business of Building a Film Hub featuring Patrick Mulhearn

Welcome back to On Production. Today I'm joined by Patrick Mulhern, who is a longtime Louisiana film industry leader who has spent much of his career building the infrastructure, the financial, physical and human that makes production possible outside of Hollywood. So Patrick began as an Emmy winning producer in Louisiana News before moving into state government in 2006 to help administer and promote.

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Louisiana's Motion Picture Investor Tax Credit program. He later became executive director of Celtic Studios in Baton Rouge, which is an awesome production hub. It's a major Gulf South production hub that's hosted dozens of large scale features. I think that the combined budgets, Patrick, correct me if wrong, like is over a billion dollars in studio features there. And after returning then to the Louisiana Economic Development.

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you then were able to focus on making the industry more self-sustaining. You then went on to found the Louisiana Academy of Production, which is a charter school designed to create pathways into behind the scenes careers for students from underserved communities. And then today, through Mulhearn and Associates and your work with Irrevocable Designee, you continue to help entertainment projects connect with the people, information, and resources they need to succeed in Louisiana. So in today's conversation,

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you know, I'm excited to talk about what it takes to really build a durable production ecosystem from incentives and credit structures to studio operations. And then of course, workforce development and the long-term work of making a state attractive, not just to visiting productions, but to homegrown creators as well. So thank you. I'm thrilled to have you with us today, Patrick. Let's get into it.

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Patrick Mulhearn (01:51.998)

Well, thanks for having me. These are my favorite topics.

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Cameron Woodward (01:54.752)

Let's do it. Okay, so you've worked across broadcast TV, state government, studio leadership, and now consulting, all with the through line of growing Louisiana's film and TV industry. What did you learn early on that still shapes how you think about building a sustainable production ecosystem?

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Patrick Mulhearn (02:14.816)

Well, you you've heard production executives refer to it as the three legged stool that they're looking for when determining where they're going to send a film or a TV show. you know, that's certainly infrastructure. And again, I'm sitting right now at Celtic Studios, which is the largest design built studio in the Gulf South. But we all know it's about incentives, which are just kind of crucial. And, you know, of course, Louisiana has got ours, I think, extended through 2031.

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But the third thing that I think a lot of people forget about is crew. It's getting the people who can work on it. so whereas a lot of the executives call it three-legged stool, I would say what you really need is a four-legged table, which is you need consistent work. That is the fourth leg. Because if you don't have consistent work, you will lose your crew. So that's a big part of my focus has shifted now to the consistent work side.

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Cameron Woodward (03:07.478)

Interesting. So when you were at Louisiana Economic Development helping administer the Motion Picture Investor Tax Credit, what were the most common small details that tripped productions up? Things that producers often didn't realize matter until it's too late.

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Patrick Mulhearn (03:25.124)

Well, you know, it's one of those things where you realize that a lot of them maybe haven't done their homework or probably should just do maybe just a little bit of checking around first. It's one of those things where you can't assume certain things. mean, you know, again, you need to check how busy an area is for one thing, right? You need to be able to, you know, tell what is the weather going to be like? You know, I used to tell producers like take August 29th and circle it on your calendar. That's the date that Katrina hit.

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Um, and you can almost bank on something affecting plans in the Gulf, whether it's a week before or a week after. Um, you know, uh, that's a, you know, luckily we haven't had to deal with that lately in Louisiana, but that's a real thing. You know, I mean, you've got the plan ahead. You got to plan for weather conditions. Um, you name it. Um, but I think it's just a lot of like, you know, questions about what qualifies, what does it and all that. You need to work those things out in advance, you know,

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you need to find the resources before you get started.

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Cameron Woodward (04:28.834)

That's great. So I've heard Louisiana's incentive described as up to 40 % with additional uplifts and a separate VFX structure. What are the biggest early decisions in prep that determine whether a project actually captures the full value of the program?

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Patrick Mulhearn (04:44.768)

Yeah, well, so, you know, again, they changed the law this past year. It's where L.E.D. is going to have a lot of discretion over what gets the 40 percent. And I'm telling people, I think in my mind, the real hurdle here is getting pre-certified, you know, as to, you know, in advance because, you know, again, they haven't, like, set the rules just yet. They're working on those right now. But the legislation had four main criteria that you need to keep in mind and what they're looking for.

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I guess one of the biggest things that they're looking for is economic impact. Can you prove that this one's better than another for some reason? Meaning, is it set in Louisiana? Could it actually lead to tourists coming here? Do you have a Louisiana filmmaker who's making this? Is there Louisiana money invested in this? Because that could be the biggest economic impact of all, because again, maybe residuals and profits are flowing back to Louisiana as a result, right?

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I think economic impact is really going to be key. One of them, of course, affordability. mean, again, we may not be able to take a $300 million Marvel movie if we've got $125 million program per year, right? So again, availability of funds is certainly going to be at the top of it. Good news probably for independents. But the third one is

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It's really more of a geography thing. Like they call it like statewide spending. And I think that came about just because we all know most films tend to gravitate towards New Orleans just because of the crew base, the direct flights to LA. mean, you name it. Sometimes New Orleans can get really busy and the rest of the state is looking for work. So I think that they're going to sometimes look and say, hey, how busy is New Orleans right now? Or does this production plan on going somewhere outside of New Orleans? I think that that's something.

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The fourth one's a little nebulous, just to be honest with you. It's called Best Interest of Louisiana. Right? So I would probably shy away from, you know, making projects that have Louisiana people looking like toothless idiots or something. So I don't know what that means exactly. But I mean, right now, you know, again, with the industry slowdown, everything is in the best interest of Louisiana, as long as it's creating work.

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Cameron Woodward (07:05.826)

That's super interesting. So you were chatting about this just a moment ago, slightly, but I want to dig into it a little bit more, which is, with minimum in-state spend thresholds and then annual limits, timing can be everything for filmmakers if they're choosing to film here in Louisiana or anywhere where there's caps. How do you advise producers to think about certainty and cashflow, especially around issuance and audit timelines?

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Patrick Mulhearn (07:29.352)

Yeah, so I mean, right now, we just can just judge how things have been going. I mean, I know how they were when I worked for the State Film Office. then again, we had an uncapped program back then. Now it's like, again, it's a little bit of reservation of having to make sure that those credits are there. So those are things that you work out in advance. And you'll get an initial certification letter that basically gives you sort of like your worst case scenario of when the credits could be issued.

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I've likened it to flying standby sometimes where, you again, you have a guaranteed seat on a on this flight, which could be in twenty twenty eight. But, who knows, you might be able to like if you have all your audit and everything done in advance and know what and the other folks who apply and aren't ready, you may be able to fly standby and go first. Right. So, you know, that's part of it is always just kind of like being in good communication with Amanda Hafford over at L.E.D.

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And just kind of like, you know, knowing, you and the bigger thing I think really is going to be like, hey, you know, can I get pre certified, you know, and it could be, could it be for 40 %?

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Cameron Woodward (08:39.352)

That's awesome. I want to talk a little bit about irrevocable designees. you know, producers can sell back to the state at 90 % of face value or use structures like an irrevocable designee or a short-term lender. How should a production evaluate those options in practice? Maybe explain the concept here and let's dig into like things like speed, net value, the risk, the complexity. You know, obviously you can't.

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get individualized tax advice, but just give us a picture.

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Patrick Mulhearn (09:14.08)

Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, just kind of a history lesson. Once upon a time, Louisiana's tax credits were very much like Georgia's, like completely fully transferable. Although you could sell them back to the state for 85 cents on the dollar in 2017. They changed it to where they didn't want a brokering system where people were getting them at one price and flipping them and selling them at another. And so what they did is they put the buyback at 90 cents.

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However, you have to pay a 2 % fee if you decide to sell them back, right? So it's really a net 88, not 90. Unless you have income tax liability here. So for example, maybe if I'm Amazon and I have my own lots of income tax liability, I can make productions here all day long, and I could use it to offset what I owe the state in income tax, if that makes sense, right? So for everybody else who does not have that,

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There is something in the law called the Irrevocable Designee where you can name a Louisiana taxpayer at any point before the credits are issued. Okay. That's again why we have a company name that. So the advantage is this. It can take the state because you're going to you're going to have to go through the process of two agencies. Louisiana Department of Revenue is going to have to write you a check that can take. I mean, again, I've heard stories of anywhere from 60 days to 11 months, right?

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So the advantage of finding a Louisiana taxpayer is that you can monetize your credits much faster. And, again, for us, it's like, okay, well, we'll try to get you a little better than 88. That might be 88 and a half, but still better than 88, right? So it kind of pays to just be able to work those things in advance. Again, you can do it at any point before the state issues the credits, but once they're issued, they're gone. Does that make sense? Yeah.

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Cameron Woodward (11:10.979)

Yeah.

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Patrick Mulhearn (11:12.65)

So, you again, there are, you know, again, you might find the right Louisiana taxpayer who would want to cash flow to a certain extent, right? So it all depends, you know, and again, that's what we're trying to do is to play matchmaker, which is that that's what we do. We find the Louisiana taxpayer for the production companies. So, you know, again, they're not having to scramble with the last minute.

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Cameron Woodward (11:36.27)

I mean, Patrick, obviously you've worked with productions that are at a massive scale, but for Indies or other types of films, like what range is the ideal producer or production to chat with you related to like exploring that structure?

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Patrick Mulhearn (11:50.405)

Well, you know, again, it ranges the same as we have with taxpayers. We have, you know, companies here who, you know, owe tens of millions per year in income tax. And then we have, you know, doctors, lawyers and others who may owe a hundred thousand. know, so really, it's not worth it. Less than a hundred thousand. But if somebody has a hundred thousand, you know, or really, I could probably find a taxpayer for anybody. But, you know, for the for the actual taxpayer.

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It may not be worth it unless it's over.

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Cameron Woodward (12:23.038)

Awesome. Pivoting gears just a little bit. So as executive director of Celtic, when you were there, you hosted some huge productions with, as I mentioned, over a billion dollars in production spend. So I'm curious, what makes the stage facility attractive to large shows? And then where do people underestimate the operational lift?

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Patrick Mulhearn (12:44.83)

Well, you know, again, I think that a seven stage facility, especially like the way had at Kelsey, like really can make life easier and it can save money. You know, again, versus trying to find all these locations to be able to build, you know, the sets is always a huge advantage. I mean, let's just look from like logistically having Teamsters driving, you know, the crew and everybody all over town. You know, that that can certainly add up.

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you know, but a place like Celtic where it's secure, private, you know, it's gated and all that, you know, again, there's, there's certainly advantages to being able to, you know, protect your, your, your crew and your IP and whatever, you know, so keeping it all contained. you know, I think that that, you know, that's a real value. And I think that sometimes people under, they say, well, you know, it's cheaper to shoot on location when reality, it might actually be cheaper to do a build.

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you

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Cameron Woodward (13:41.302)

Interesting. Yeah, I mean, looking at some big projects that Celtic did, you so the Battleship, Oblivion, Twilight Breaking Dawn, Four, what were, what did you see were recurring producer problems your team had to solve and what systems helped you all handle them consistently?

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Patrick Mulhearn (13:59.936)

Oh, You know, again, sometimes we're talking about, I mean, these were massive films that we had back in the day. I mean, when, you know, I think Battleship had a budget of like 214 million Twilight Saga Breaking Dawn parts one and two shot back to back. you can look at that as like a 240 million dollar production. Right. And we just happen to have them both on the same lot at the same time. So when you're talking about that many cast crew, whatever, hundreds of people. So it becomes like a small town.

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And when you have those kinds of issues, you have small town issues, things like traffic. know, we had pet policies to make sure that, you know, animals didn't fight or whatever. know, again, all the little things that, you know, take just to have, you know, two massive armies camped together. That was kind of a big problem, you know, when they were so big, so big that we again, we would sometimes have to identify warehouses and things off the lot.

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because sometimes you just can't handle. But I hate to say it, but it feels like those tent pole days are done. I just don't know that we're seeing that. that's really not, congestion is not so much of a problem anymore. However, just anywhere, you need to always check what's going on. mean, in Baton Rouge, could be LSU football season, so hotels. In New Orleans, it could be Jazz Fest or the Hematologist Convention.

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I mean, those are things that you just need to sort of like, you know, get planning. It always pays to plan in advance. It just, pays to have good relationships with wherever you are so you can talk to people and kind of know what's going on.

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Cameron Woodward (15:40.109)

That's great. So pivoting a little bit again, I believe you founded Louisiana Film and Entertainment Association, which is now called Film Louisiana. So I'm curious with that background and those experiences, like what is your view in terms of effective advocacy? Like what does effective advocacy look like when you're trying to support producers and maintain public trust, especially around policy stability?

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Patrick Mulhearn (16:05.568)

Yeah, so mean, incentives are so crucial for just about every program, every production hub that you've got to have a voice at the Capitol, right? And that's what I had to do because I had worked at the state film office. I knew the film people from Shreveport, the film people from Lafayette, New Orleans, Baton Rouge. And so to kind of pull everybody together to be able to, you know.

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get your story out about the economic impact, to be able to talk to legislators and lots of decision makers. It's important to be organized, because again, we are an industry and we kind of have to play like a team if we want to get the best results. So I think that now things have changed. I mean, I feel like that the industry has changed drastically over the past, really just the past couple of years.

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Whereas once upon a time, it was all about staying competitive to be able to lure production to your jurisdiction. It is a competitive world. When Louisiana first started, it was just Louisiana, New Mexico and the US. And within a few years, was several dozen states had incentives and then several dozen countries. And to this day, again, you probably know better than I do, but it's at least 38 states maybe that have incentives to them.

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I mean, obviously there's so much foreign competition. So to stay competitive, but it's like, how do you define competitive now? And like, is your goal? mean, if your goal is to lure temples, then, you I mean, again, you may need something that, incentive that goes for that. If your goal is to...

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Cameron Woodward (17:47.18)

You can see what New Jersey's been doing with Netflix, like building very customized legislation for some of those temples, for sure.

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Patrick Mulhearn (17:53.185)

Right. Which honestly, I think is very smart. And I think that, you know, it's all about what your goals are. For example, I think that the best tech I'm making, in fact, maybe for your own content creators, for your own storytellers. And so gearing it to make it easier for them, or to set up shop long term. Again, you're absolutely right. It's putting thought.

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I think the days of this, blanket rolling out the red carpet for Hollywood are dying. It might be time to kind of, I think a lot of jurisdictions need to rethink how they do in some.

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Cameron Woodward (18:32.546)

Now, it's really interesting. Something I've been noticing is like you look at like what Tyler Sheridan is doing in the greater Dallas area. You look at like Shondaland, you look at Tyler Perry, you look at Mr. Beast. I mean, there are this emergent class of creators that are across every content vertical, whether that's social, television, movies. And it's like building out the crew base and the studio system and the incentives that make that possible for...

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auteurs at this like incredible scale is pretty interesting. But again, you're right. Like I guess it's totally dependent on what state legislators are hoping to optimize for, which is pretty interesting. I mean, do you have an opinion on what do you think a state should optimize for? mean, you ended up returning in 2017 to the Louisiana Economic Development. I think that was the last time I saw you actually was not not 2017, but you were in the role and you know,

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you were focused on making the industry more self-sustaining for Louisiana creators. earlier you were mentioning it's not a tripod, it's a four legged table. You need the jobs coming as well, but I'm curious, like in practical terms, what are the signals that a state is building durable capacity, not just chasing a bygone era, maybe, as you were describing it?

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Patrick Mulhearn (19:53.107)

Yeah, well, you know, not just anyone can facilitate production. mean, like I said, you got to have those three legs to facilitate. And, you I mean, I guess in some ways I was one of the biggest facilitators of them all with this big soundstage facility that we have in Baton Rouge. But it really when we had a big hiccup with our incentive, you know, probably from 2015 to 2017 that made it clear that without the incentive, like you could lose it all if you don't have your own.

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Indigenous industry, right? So, you know, it's one thing to facilitate production, and it's another thing to make your own, you know, to own versus rent the industry. So that's, you know, kind of made the conscious decision that like, hey, we need to evolve a little bit as a state and as an industry and to do the things where we could actually like green light our own projects. And that goes into the, again, that fourth leg, you know, it's having access to capital for consistent work and

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to be able to green light your own projects, it really does kind of put an emphasis on independent production unless you have somebody here. Now look, we just got 50 cent up in Shreveport, right? yeah, so he, gosh, he bought half of Shreveport, including the old Millennium Studios up there, I think. But he's planning on generating and creating his own content from there. So he wants to his own studio, his own, you know.

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Patrick Mulhearn (21:21.844)

He can green light his own projects. So we need a little bit more of that. Gosh, I can only imagine if we had tried harder to keep content creators back in the day, because Tyler Perry is from New Orleans, even though he has a huge facility in Atlanta. But it's others. Steven Soderbergh is from Baton Rouge. In fact, is the birthplace of modern independent film. Because Sex, Lies, and Videotapes shot here in what?

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Patrick Mulhearn (21:51.041)

1988, I think, and it's credited as the film that put the Sundance Film Festival on the map. But we didn't do the things at the time to hang on to Steven Soderbergh or the Duplass Brothers, right? I mean, there's a lot of great minds that have come out of Louisiana. That's what my focus is, like trying to... I feel like the content creator is the real VIP and that's who we need to focus on.

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Cameron Woodward (22:16.866)

That's awesome. So like that's the tops down view of the auteur, right? And like we do see this movement of some of these amazing auteurs like building their own studios, et cetera. But you also founded the Louisiana Academy of Production, which is really all about the behind the camera opportunities, especially for underserved communities. What rules are you prioritizing and how do you plan to connect students to real production pathways in a way that leads to jobs?

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Patrick Mulhearn (22:41.088)

Well, what I love about it is it's going to knock down the barriers to entry, right? You know, mean, a lot of people say, I don't know how to break into the business. I don't know how to get in. feels like you got to know someone, right? But, you know, again, this is bottled after and affiliated with the Royal Film and Television Magnet School in Los Angeles that George Clooney and Brian Lord, a lot of folks, you know, got behind that.

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And this is, you know, Louisiana's version of Roybal. They have, you know, three pathways. I mean, these are behind the camera. This is not so much, again, the ones that trying to be directors or writers or whatever. You know, these are those great jobs that you might not need a college degree for. You know, I mean, the ones that you could go right onto set, you know, maybe making, you know, joining the union 60,000 a year, you know, that's transformative wealth for a lot of kids. You know, so.

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know, again, but the pathways they have is like, of course, the onset technical, your grips and your gaffers and all the fun things that you do, camera. But it's also craft. So everything from, you know, set construction to our department, wardrobe, costuming. Post is a big one. And, you know, which is makes a lot of sense for Louisiana because we are a post only state where you don't even have to shoot here. But if you'll do your post production or your VFX work here, you can get tax credits on.

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and, fourth is one that they didn't have, but we decided that we did. And maybe you guys want to get involved with that. It's the business side, right? Which is, you know, everything from, production accounting to management, marketing to a certain extent. so, yeah, it's, you know, I think it was George Clooney who said, you know, like, if you see it, you can be it. And a lot of these kids don't know these jobs exist. And so that's the main thing is to expose them to it. Maybe get them to kind of choose a pathway.

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that they really like and hopefully graduate not just with a high school diploma but with a skill set and something that could keep them in the industry forever.

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Cameron Woodward (24:50.882)

That's awesome, Patrick. I mean, we've covered a big breadth of subjects because you happen to have been involved in so many different elements of film craft in the great state of Louisiana. But for filmmakers or producers or people that are curious about how to best take advantage of Louisiana, how to best interact with you and utilize your wellspring of information, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you or utilize your sort of expertise across

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the landscape of getting movies made in Louisiana.

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Patrick Mulhearn (25:24.532)

Well, goodness. mean, look, you can always find me on LinkedIn. I'm painfully accessible. So by all means, do that. Again, our company that, again, plays the matchmaking, irrevocable designee, and that's irrevocabledesignee.com. Again, that'll give you a little bit of information there. I still consult. And again, somebody comes in, they're trying to develop a project, or they're trying to like,

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pull pieces together, they don't know who to call, who might be a good UPM or a line producer or whatever. I mean, again, you can't help it if you've been around this thing for 25 years, like I have you do, who to call, who's good, who's not. So, I mean, again, the state, I believe is still louiseyentertainment.gov. And of course, Baton Rouge Film Office is fantastic. And I mean, they're all fantastic.

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I'm a little partial to batteries just because I lived and worked here for so long.

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Cameron Woodward (26:25.08)

Well, fantastic. Patrick, thank you for joining me on On Production and sharing with us a bit of your story, your background, your expertise. Hopefully producers very seriously consider Louisiana as a good option for them. Really appreciate your time.

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Patrick Mulhearn (26:37.969)

Absolutely, let's do this again. Good to see you.