Why Eli Roth Says Dream Eater Is One of the Scariest Films of the Year

Welcome back to On Production, a podcast from Wrapbook. Today we're diving into the making of Dream Eater, a chilling new feature shot high in the snowy mountains of Canada with nothing more than grit, ingenuity, and a skeleton crew. The story follows a couple documenting a violent sleep disorder only to uncover something far more sinister. It recently took home Best Feature at the HP Lovecraft Film Festival.

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Joining me today are the filmmakers, Jay Draculik, Mallory Drumm, Alex Lee Williams, who not only made the film, but also starred in it, as well as acclaimed director, producer, and Dream Eater's executive producer, Eli Roth. Today, we're going to unpack the realities of DIY horror, the craft of authentic found footage, the collaborative chemistry of Blind Luck pictures, and how this project landed on Eli's radar. I'm thrilled.

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To have you all with me, let's get into it. Welcome, guys.

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Thank you so much. Thank you for having us on the show. We're so stoked.

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Cameron Woodward (01:06.743)

Yeah, absolutely. So DreamEater was built in isolation. I was able to see the screener, snowbound mountains, a bare bones team. Can you walk me through what an average shooting day really looked like in that environment? What broke? What surprised you? What saved you?

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(01:25.698)

Yeah, mean, you originally we had actually planned to film this in the fall time, so...

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just due to scheduling conflicts, we then pushed it to March. And it just so happened that Quebec had its largest snowfall in some record 10-year history at that point. So the snow came to us as a big surprise. just automatically, there were things that we knew we would have to change because of that, starting with arriving a few days earlier just to be able to shovel our way through to the location itself and including some of the set pieces.

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around the location as well. And then just being a skeleton crew like you talked about, we decided to film everything chronologically, which ended up helping a lot in terms of continuity and just making sure that we could embrace whatever weather happened. But you we were really lucky. Like each night we got a new blanket of snow. So was like all of our footsteps were erased. And we were starting with a fresh-brained slate every day, which was very easy and exciting for us. But yeah, like every day because we were doing it chronologically, and as you've seen, a lot of it happens at night. Our days kind of started late afternoon and went into the early morning hours and then would just pick up again.

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(02:49.232)

And you know, we were really blessed with an amazing crew because we did everything in nine days, no breaks, and just kind of went straight one day into the next. Yeah, was basically... The thing when you're considering the production side of it...

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Weather was huge, you you're looking at your schedule and because we were doing it chronologically, we were able to not only embrace the changing weather, but it actually started changing locations for the better. There's a scene that takes place on the middle of a frozen lake and that scene was just supposed to be done on the edge of the property, just in front of some trees. And so not only was it at first what appeared to be a challenge, it became like another character in the film. if we had shot this movie in the fall that she had mentioned, like our original plan.

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I don't think the movie would land the way that it does because walking through the snow barefoot, like Alex, I don't want to spoil anything, but the crawl space scene, you know, that hits so much harder knowing that we were freezing our asses off while not only shooting it, but acting in it. Yeah, that's what we always tell indie filmmakers, know, it's like, don't look at the hand your dealt as like a constraint, but actually it gives you that creative freedom to now look outside the box. You know, if you go in, we go in super, super prepped. So when things kind of pop up like,

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you we had to actually change what time of year we shot it in. It was like, okay, cool. Now we have an opportunity to really change the vibe and aesthetic of this film. So it's really one of those things where it's like, you know, we play make believe for a living, right? It's one of, I mean, you know, one day for a living. And it's one of these things that we're so grateful for, but if you're prepped and if you go into it with that solid game plan, now when the world throws you some new curve ball, you can now play and deal with it and now really create outside of the box. You know, it's a lot like life, right?

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Like every day is not gonna unfold the way that you may have had it all planned out, which you would doubt. And I think as an indie filmmaker, that's one of the most exciting aspects of this. And then you end up something, in our opinion, nine times out of 10, that was better than what you would originally plan, because that's where real life kind of plays a hand in the art you're creating. It also gives your film, you know, I think, and I wasn't there for the production, but.

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(04:56.438)

it gives it a very distinct look that's different from other found footage horror films. know, when you think of that paranormal activity, Blair Witch, Wreck, Last Exorcism, everyone's making them in weather that's somewhat manageable. But to do something in the barren snow in the tundra that is, you know, like the thing, you know, that feels like you shot it in Alaska or something, you feel it's, it's, it.

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It ratchets up the intensity and the level of scares that I don't think you would have gotten under any other circumstances. And capture the beauty. You you guys are such a, such, it's such a beautiful looking film that normally anything that's docu-style or found footage, you feel, it'll be shaky or this or out of focus or weird angles. But it is such a, such a beautiful cinematic quality. It's obviously the production design and the score and.

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you know, the sound design you guys did, but man, it's hard to find a horror film that looks this beautiful.

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Cameron Woodward (05:59.181)

That's fantastic. mean, it's interesting, know, nature and logistics famously do not always go well together. And it seems like there's actually like a paradox in the case of this production whereby like snow on one hand, very challenging, not cooperative, but then it adds to the stakes to the narrative in like a really powerful way. Were there moments when you guys thought this just might not work? And then how did you push through?

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(06:24.344)

You know, I think with the spirit of indie filmmaking, I mean, look, you always have the anxieties of like, is this not gonna work? But I think it's kind of in your DNA that it will. Like again, where there's a will, there's a way. think if you really are, you kind of think with an adaptable mindset and you don't count on things to go right, but you actually count on things to go quote unquote wrong. It gives you that ability to really creatively kind of create those solutions outside of the box. like, you know, of course like,

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You know, there's the realities of the resources that you're working with. And this was a fully self-financed film, right? So we knew that everything was on us. So obviously there are gonna be elements that are gonna be outside of your control. But honestly, if I'm being real, no, we always have this kind of sense that where there's a will, there's a way. And at the end of the day, we're gonna make our days. We're gonna get these pictures and we're gonna put them up on screen, because that's what it's all about. And I think, know, it's what Mallory said earlier, when you've got that crew,

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that's willing to go there with you. They're willing to brave those long, dark, cold nights. they're with, cause they believe in the story and they believe in what you're trying to do. You know, I think with the right team and with the right mindset, I think you really can overcome all obstacles. And like I said, you know, a lot of times the things you didn't account for actually make your film better. Like Eli was saying, you know, the snow ended up becoming an additional character to the film. And there were times, man, like, you know, straight up, we were like,

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with certain schedules not working out, we were like, we're to get the right people. But it was like, no, just keep the train on the tracks, keep focused, stay true to the vision and it's going to happen. And yeah, that's what, that's how we approach DreamEater and that's how we approach all of our projects. Yeah. yeah. I was just going to add that there's one of the things that we're super passionate about because again, we just go in very prepared. we're prepared, we're prepared to be unprepared for what's going to happen on set. Like you can, you can plan out as many.

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(08:21.996)

as many scenarios as you want, the one scenario you didn't plan for is the one that does come up. So we embrace that very, very wholeheartedly because at the end of the day, there is more than one way to solve it. There's more than one answer. There's not just one way that this movie has to look. That is, I think, both as producers and as directors, it's our job for the story. It's like, well, okay, well, what's the best way to tell the story of what just occurred or what?

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And sometimes that was like, shit, we have a hurricane happening at three hours. We should move this scene that was happening over here onto the frozen lake. Imagine how that would look. And that scene is probably the most striking visual scene in the whole film. So it can be a hindrance or it can be something that amplifies your movie to the next level. But it's all about just being adaptable and accepting that just be okay with pivoting on the spot. There's nothing wrong with that because there are so many.

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There are so many ways to do this one scene. What's the best way you can do it with the resources that you have available? And that's such a true story, right? Like with that, we were supposed to shoot that particular scene on the frozen lake at a time when the weather is going to be clear. When we found out there was a squall coming in only for like 45 minutes, we literally inverted the schedule to shoot in the storm. So we opted for the harsh weather because we knew at this point in the movie when all those horror forces are brewing.

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and that storm is starting to rage, we wanted to really capture that with the nature and with the landscape, right? So it ended up feeling like a force within that scene. So again, sometimes you even gotta chase those harsher elements to end up getting something that's gonna really, I think, have more of an impact once the viewers kinda get ahold of it. But again, I think it speaks to these guys as filmmakers that a directing trio, part of what you're doing is it's your vision, but it's everybody's vision.

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and you're able to take other people's input and ideas and fuse it into one cohesive vision and interpreting the weather or the opportunity, that's another part of that. It's just like, wow, we got a storm coming in. David Lynch would always talk about happy accidents, that these things that happen that if you're so focused in what's in your head, you miss what's right in front of you. that often that's where the gold is. It's just like being.

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completely open to whatever happens. know, like he catches the set dressers in the reflection in the mirror of the wardrobe. know, suddenly it's like there's Bob. He lives behind the wall of the dresser. Like he just, sees it. It's like, that's what these guys are able to do is they can, you know, just adapt and really make the most of it and turn it into a really interesting creative thing. But also, you know, they're, they're writing, directing, producing, acting, they're doing everything themselves. So.

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already on set the nucleus or three people going, oh, this is great, this is great. And you know, just sort of, when you have that kind of blind, I would say movies are like a faith based system. You have faith and you hope that God works out and you just have to fully believe it's gonna work. There's no other way. And what these guys do is that when you have that kind of drive, it inspires everyone around like, oh yeah, this is possible. If someone was like, fuck, there's this squad, we can't go outside, we can't shoot. You wouldn't have done it. But if you're like,

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oh ***, let's move this and shoot it in lake in the blizzard. Everyone's like, oh yeah, this would be a great scene. Like it's completely, the weather didn't change, it's just your mentality to change. But that's why I think the film is great. I think they're able to not just take advantage of it, but turn them into really, they understand what's gonna make the best, scariest, creepiest scene. They knew that the weather at that point in the movie would make it better. It wasn't just, oh this will look cool. It's a real inherent understanding of how to

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milk the location for every possible moment of terror. I think that the last 15 minutes of Dream Eater, I don't think there's anything scarier that I've seen in 2025. I would put this up against any movie, any studio movie. The last 15, 20 minutes of this movie is the scariest filmmaking I've seen in a long, long time. And that's, you these guys and their creativity. They did it with, you know, $40,000, some micro budget. It's crazy.

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And like to add on to that, know, when you work with, you we had touched on this earlier, when you work with a really creative team like ShutterCore and Catarina, who's our cinematographer on this, what was really interesting about DreamEater was, as found footage, know, as is with found footage, the camera's a character. You know, so when we were walking through the motivations of Mallory, well, Mallory's often behind the camera and Mike was operating as a cinematographer. So there were also times that he was coming out with input as an actor. He was also talking about

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in this moment, and especially as the shoot progressed, he would say like, you know, in this moment, this is actually now what I'm feeling through Mallory. And it would give you a really good idea of being like, shit, because it is, we're watching it through your POV as well. And it was really interesting because Mallory and Mike were literally hip to hip the entire movie. They had this synchronicity that was so impressive to watch. If one of them took a tumble, the other did. Because we were also shooting, recording Foley after every single take, which was

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amazing for sound design after, right? So it was really cool because when you also have that crew that gets what you're making, they understand the source material, but they also believe in that source material. They start to become it. And now these incredibly interesting ideas are coming out from other people that are also affecting the visual narrative, how the film is going to pace out. So shout out to Michael Cattarino for that as well, because it was very much like this team effort.

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of putting this movie together. When you have so few people doing everything, including mopping the floors and resets and getting the location ready for the next day and all of that. We had an avalanche at one point where we had like, no joke, 12 feet of snow that fell off of the roof in the middle of the night and totally like wiped out one area where we were gonna shoot it. It's all hands on deck at that point, right? So again, I think you surround yourself with those right people. You believe in what you're doing. come and prepped. Man, some real magic can happen from that.

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Cameron Woodward (14:29.039)

I love that were speaking to that, Jay, because it was actually one of my questions, which was, we've talked a lot about the environment and the weather, of course, being a part of this. But because this film leans on realism, it seems to me that every production choice carries a lot of weight. So was curious. I mean, you've mentioned a few of them, like in terms of camera movement, but were there other decisions related to the camera sound or set dressing that you feel like really tipped the balance from like an indie roughness to that documentary truth that really gives the stakes to this film?

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(14:59.478)

Yeah, you know, with the production design, like we're always we always love when homes or spaces feel like they've been lived in. Like whenever you're watching a movie and like, know, it happens in like this pristine kitchen that just feels like a studio set. It kind of pulls you out of it. So we ended up shooting this actually at my parents cottage because as indie filmmakers, right, right to the locations you have, because those end up being like the most expensive line item in your budget. And when we got there, the cottage is a very

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well lived in place that my mom has spent a lot of time just like making feel like a home. So we kind of embraced all of that and we took away certain things just to make it more visually appealing. But we kept a lot of it there because we wanted this space to feel like a home, to feel lived in and not, you know, and also kind of give you what feels like a little bit of comfort. But at the same time with everything that's happening there.

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you start to like get like creeped out by it and everything, you know? And so from a production design for us, it was almost really important to keep as much of what it looked like as is. Yeah, we wanted it to start feeling cozy and end feeling like a prison. Yeah, that was the whole the whole thing with it. And the like the angles, all of the different bizarre like eras of appliances in the house and everything is like, *** yeah. Like, sorry, are we allowed to swear? Is that OK?

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Cameron Woodward (16:25.867)

Absolutely. We are working in the horror genre, people. It's okay.

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(16:26.766)

Okay, so. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. You can't speak otherwise. But like, you know, when we're doing like our walkthroughs and we're actually walking through the scene and everything, it's like, Mallory like should say something about this oven. This oven that looks, it's an incredible set piece. So literally she goes, I love this oven. And then when we were doing our very first walkthrough in the summer, literally, know, Jay and Mallory walking me through it and I go.

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What the hell is that thing? And they're like, that's a carousel that like someone made like 75 years ago for their grandchild. was like, we have to put this in the movie. That's insane. And there was even more like behind the trees, there's like this abandoned monkey bar set that we actually just could not get to because the snow was that bad. so like shout out to the scene that, you know, we'll never see the light of day that happened at the monkey bars. But like.

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And the trampoline? The trampoline, it hollowed out trampoline. We're just like, fuck, I wish we could get back there. But yeah, was embracing every corner and every nook and cranny, every angle of that house, of this very lived in place. And that's, again, another character of the film is the location. It's Alex, it's Alex, Mal, the weather and the location creating this.

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Horrific nightmare. Yeah, Eli had said it before, know, like the house really is that additional character, like in Black Christmas. That house is just, I can't picture that movie being in any other house than Black Christmas. And you know, also to answer your question in terms of like, how did other aspects like sound and like, how was that affected by what we were doing becoming more docu? was like, what was really cool was being in that environment and living in that, we weren't living at the location, we were living very nearby. It's a very remote, isolated place.

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you start to really feel the vibe of where you're shooting. You hear the howling wind, you hear the cabin creaking and it was really cool. Cause again, just like shouting out Mike Catarina, Brent Bodrag who was our, who was our audio on the film. What was super cool was when we were working with him, it would be like, you'd hear something in between a take and you'd be like, did you just do that? And he'd be like, I'm going to catch that. So he would like in between shooting, we'd stop and all of a sudden catch that, catch that sound.

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So when then we were crafting the sound design during the editing process, we were bringing in either the actual sounds, the organic sounds that we recording on site, because like being able to do Foley in the location was amazing. But then when we were putting together our artificial sound design in the sense of those sounds that we were putting in that weren't recorded on location, man, it was all being influenced and we were trying from what we experienced when we were up there. So it's really cool, right? Because then

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Like we're talking about the house, the weather, the characters themselves, they all start to kind of convalesce into this one kind of like amorphous thing by the end of the movie where you can't pull them out. And then the other thing too with that was that with our score. When we decided to put in the score, well the score, the brief we gave to our composer, Julian Stirpe, was we want limited musicality, but what we want to do is we want to highlight the natural sounds of this bleak frigid landscape. So we want...

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the drones to sound like wind. We want this to all feel like a force of nature. So it was really cool there because what we experienced, ultimately heightened, it's horror, but what we experienced living out there for the time that we were there is really what we brought into the film. And I think that's what felt so docu- least to myself.

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Cameron Woodward (20:00.643)

That's awesome. Mallory, you grew up in a really spooky space, man.

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Yeah, you know, like it's been in the family like before I was born. So I've been going up there since like before I could remember and the whole entire space just has a vibe and I've always wanted to make a movie there. And so when we all kind of came together as a collective, I was like, you guys got to come up and see the cottage because I think we could do something here. We've written a couple of different shorts, a couple of different features. And then when we got the opportunity to make Dream Theater, I like called my parents and I was like,

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Can I steal the cottage for two weeks in March? And they were like, absolutely have at it. And so, yeah, it's fun going back up now too.

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Cameron Woodward (20:41.161)

That's great. Alex, you were mentioning angles, you know, and on this genre, right, of found footage horror, you know, like, some would say that it has its own rules, you know, whether it's the angles, if you were mentioning glitches, limitations, how did you all feel like you were going to honor that language while still giving audiences something that they hadn't seen before?

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(21:05.954)

Yeah, like one of the things that, you know, they say this in like film school is like understand the rules before you break them. Like if you can understand how to break the rule properly, then actually have at it because that's where new ideas will basically generate from. So, you know, obviously in the found footage genre, one of the biggest challenges because everyone thinks that making a found footage movie is easy. is sure it's inexpensive because you can lean on the fact that this is supposed to feel docu-style so it can be rough. It can be shot with DV tapes, whatever.

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But it's incredibly hard because every single time the camera's on, you need to justify it. So you have to build that into your story. Why is the camera shooting? Which was very, we so passionate about establishing within the first two minutes, the audience will understand why this movie is being made and then they get to go along for the ride. You don't have to wait for that. We wanted to establish it right away.

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So when we were then coming up with the justification for how Mallory is shooting the film, being a documentary filmmaker and a cinematographer, that was something we were incredibly passionate about because we wanted to make a good looking found footage movie. And then as the movie progresses, don't want to spoil anything, we wanted the audience to suspect who actually put this together. And that is very intentional because there are things that happen in it.

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that typically don't happen in found footage films because that was, again, that was built into the story. It was very important for us to place that conversation into the audience's minds that they can come up with that answer themselves. We have our answer, absolutely. Everything is justified in this movie, including the score. Non-diegetic sounds in found footage movies, to a lot of purists, they're like, you cannot do that. The score is intentional. It is not violating any rules because our answer, our justification for it,

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is completely story driven. There is a story outside of the story of the film and it's a very dark realization when anyone who has asked us will absolutely tell them and every time they're like, okay. No, it's great. That's one of the things that I loved about it was, you know, anytime you take on a sub genre, whether it's Slasher or found footage, you know.

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You have to make a great movie, but it's always great when you can innovate and do something that no one thought of. And I thought the score you guys did from that choice early on.

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which could have a negative effect of, who scored this? It does make you think, well, wait a minute, who scored this? This is scored, so someone made it. Because I remember with, even 15 years ago, I produced a film called Last Exorcism, and that was a whole discussion of like, well, who found the tapes? Don't we need an explainer? Because that was, everyone was obsessed with that, and I said, no, no one gives a fuck. They're there to see a scary movie.

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and we're gonna save this person directed and these people acted in it. Now it's Caleb Landry-Jones, Patrick Fabian, Ashley Bell, Lewis Hurtham, like an incredible cast. but we said, you there were other movies that were trying to pretend they were real. So now you're just like defying the internet to try and go and search you and discover who you are and prove that you're wrong. And then you have the audience against you. I was like, no, it's like wrestling. Like we know it's a story, like who cares, enjoy it. And I thought that, but what these guys did with the score,

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and the way it's put together and why it's put together in that way, working that into the story, the character and different motivations I thought was really ingenious. And someone today, so I was talking with someone this morning who saw it and they're like.

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This is the single most realistic depiction of people who work in the movie industry. I've ever seen like a filmmaker and a, you know, a lighting guy. they're like, this is entirely a thousand percent accurate. You know, to that point too, right? Cause last exorcist was a huge jumping off point for us. It was really that Blair Witch were kind of the two pillars we were using, you know, and to Eli's point, it's like the one thing we did not want to do with this movie was justify why we're filming.

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It's like we're, we bake it into the story for sure. Like there is that there, but you don't have to keep kind of hitting the audience over the head being like, well, this is why we're doing it. And this is why we're capturing. It's like, we're making art. We're making the movie. As long as you're feeling it, then it's real. Right. And like we talked about this before, but what was really interesting from the script writing process was that the first final draft of the film was in effect the shooting draft. Like we were writing camera moves and camera motivations into the scene because they are the character.

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That was so fun to do. To echo what Alex said, people look at found footage as easy. It ain't easy. It's extremely hard because I'm not saying it's harder than a straight narrative by no means, but with a straight narrative, you don't have to justify God's eye view of what we're looking at. Now you can really kind of flex your creative muscles and not go, okay, I want to hit this emotion or I want to get this type of angle or highlight whatever it is within found footage. It's like, okay, well, the character's got to be doing this.

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And to that, was super cool was shooting chronologically, one of the things we had put into the script was that Mallory moves the camera further and further away as she's shooting Alex with him not knowing because she's starting to suspect something's going on and without spoiling anything, there's a reason she's moving it further and further back so he doesn't know. Being in the environment, we had a shot list going into it for sure, but when you're in the environment now,

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and you're living in that space. was almost like a stage for a play. We had an idea of where we were gonna put the camera at one point. Our cinematographer came up to us and he was like, look, being in this space, I think if we shoot from this angle, it feels like the most removed. This one, absolutely beautiful that we had planned, but this one feels more natural to the environment we're in. That was so cool because to your earlier question about what ended up becoming docu, that was really discovering the environment just like the characters do night after night.

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So now you're learning the space like they're learning the space. And I think that's where a lot of that authenticity from the cinematography started to come in, which is intrinsic to the motivations of the main character, right? I thought the security cams was when it's at smile, you're on camera and then you could just give you permission to cut to any angle you want. It so smart, like with paranormal activity where you're like, you know, it's like poltergeist with security cameras. That night vision innovation.

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of setting up the night cam. So like why you're sleeping in time-lapse was so good. You're just like, it was so scary and it gave you another angle. So you're not just looking at it through one lens the whole time. It actually, you know, people have done the Skype calls and that kind of thing, but when you are doing this and that you set up, there's cameras all over and you guys acknowledge them and you look at them. And now like that's, there's certain scenes where you're.

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where Alex is sleepwalking, that's just like, it's terrifying and it's not told through, it's not told through Mallory's camera. And it's terrifying because it's not told through, because Mallory's actually not even paying attention to it. It's happening right behind her. Yeah, we lovingly kind of said like it's found footage, but also available footage. Like not just necessarily found, you know? And also again, just, you you talk about the normal difficulties, complications of making a movie.

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So make a movie micro budget that feels like it was shot for several million dollars. Now talk about these, mean, two of your directors also, you have to be Mallory the director and then Mallory the actor and work yourself up into a hysteria and producing and problem solving while you have to do a scene where you're having a mental breakdown. you know, Alex has to be Alex the director. Then he has to be Alex the actor. And then there's a third character of Alex the sleepwalker.

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that's in there too. And that's like, it's three different roles at the same time that you have to seamlessly jump. So it's not just that these guys challenge themselves logistically in terms of making a movie, they push themselves also in being so completely vulnerable and open on camera. And I think that's really the reason the movie works so well is the relationship between the two of them and the incredible performances they give. I mean, that's why it's terrifying. And to that point, you're, sorry.

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Cameron Woodward (29:16.495)

Eli, was gonna be my next question actually, Eli, which is for all of you. know, directing and starring are each full-time jobs. How did you keep both hats on without losing either the performance or the vision behind the camera? Because there's really, like, it's not just an internal, like, what makes this so strong is the internal logic of the story, but then, like, even a meta-establishment of the of the entire thing before the camera even starts rolling. So the added layer of that is your performances as well. How did you pull it off?

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(29:54.979)

Yeah, you we were talking about this with Eli yesterday. Like, I don't know how directors do this on their own. I don't know how writers do this on their own. Like, if it weren't for these two boys, like, I just wouldn't be doing this, like, honestly. And so being able to lean on them and, you know, trust them as much as I do really kind of made the going back and forth between those roles a little bit easier. And, you know, with Mallory's character, there's just this level of exhaustion that

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progresses night after night, day after day that she's there and really leaning into the exhaustion that I just felt as like a human being wearing all of those hats and doing all of those things. Just really leaning into that and really embracing all of that as well. you know, like just trusting these guys when I was in front of the camera to you know understand what I was looking for as a director.

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and knowing what I would want to see and trusting that they understood my vision and wanted to like nail that. And if we did end being like, okay, let's see it do this kind of thing. yeah, ultimately being able to work with the both of them made that wearing those many hats took a little bit easier for sure. And just to observe real quick, talk about, so what was really cool too is Mallard being one of the three, you know, three directors. You know, there was that moment where when you were working with Mike, you were like, well, at this time I put my hair up.

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Yeah, know, like, Mike and I call it like showing business on camera, you know what I mean? Like, especially being as a woman, you know, a lot of times women are getting into these scenes and their hair is all done and it's just like blowing. I'm like...

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No, first thing I'm doing is putting my hair up and getting it out of my face. So if nothing is distracting or like I'm going outside, I'm going to put the camera down so I can put my boots on. And we were like, let's show that stuff. You know what I mean? So like embracing how Mallory would act naturally and like putting that into the movie. know what I mean? Which totally then affected the pacing of one of these scenes. So when Mallory said that the camera gets put down and now there's this pregnant.

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(32:03.746)

really kind of very tense pause where she's doing this, you're kind of like, what the hell is going on? And that all came directly from her not only being one of the directors, but also being an actor in the film. that, to affect the DNA of the movie in that kind of way was super exciting.

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Cameron Woodward (32:22.895)

So when the pressure was on, how did you guys all divide responsibility on set? And what did that dance look like in practice?

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(32:32.79)

I think when you live and breathe, especially as independent filmmakers, and I'm sure all filmmakers feel this, whether you're doing a studio film or you're doing it for no money, you live and breathe it for so long that, and especially if you prepare enough, when something starts to fall apart or the plan starts to change, especially when you have the support of people like Trust,

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it just becomes sort of, okay, well, we have, and also we edited the film ourselves, right? So we always write to shoot to edit. we, that is always what is at the forefront of our mind from the writing stage. It's like, well, we wanna cut this scene like this. We know where we're gonna be placing the camera and it's gonna cut like this. So when that unexpected thing happens on the day, whether it's good or bad, it's just about like.

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Okay, well remember we have to end the scene on this one. So let's pivot to this. Let's just get a pickup of that shot. then, you know, we can, we can roll through, but in terms of us also acting in it and, directing and doing all those things for the edit. Cause we were editing as soon as we were done one day, we would edit it that night. would put the, would assemble it ourselves. We had no DIT, none of that. We would dump at off times and literally when it was all assembled, then we'd go to sleep. But it's.

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when you're shifting your brain between the acting and the directing and everything, it's like you already have in your mind how you want the acting to, like, you we all have it envisioned in our heads, like, oh, I imagine the words coming out this way, so then once you're delivering the lines and then you're watching it back, you know, for Mallory and I, our first response would be like, Jay, do we got it? And then if he's like, oh yeah, we're like, okay, sick, we don't need to review that because we all know each other's tastes. Even though we all have different tastes,

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putting the idea through all three of us is how we always get to where the film ends up. But it was only, if Jay even paused for like a half breath, we were like, he's like, I think we're like, okay, let's go again. Because probably it was probably the scene, like, yeah, it was that part of the scene that was like, maybe we need to work or whatever. And so we all know each other's language as well. It's very easy to tell with any three of us of like, you're unhappy, why was it that part? And they're like, yeah, I think that can go again. So when we're wearing those different hats,

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(34:46.158)

It's like we've been prepared to wear those different hats since we started writing the script, which is honestly like something that I love about having no money is like, okay, well you gotta wear all the hats. So, and then now when we go to do the next film where we, you know, hopefully have a much bigger crew and access to a lot more resources.

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Anything we ask them, whether it be an actor or a different department head, we can just be like, we wouldn't ask you to do something we wouldn't do ourselves. And I think we've proved that. So we totally respect how difficult this request might be. Yeah. And I think it's really a testament to the level of prep you got to have going into it. Because once you all have that unified vision, we know what we're trying to do. We know when things now, okay, cool. We've been dealt a certain hand and we got a place. We're going to pivot. Okay, cool. We're going to pivot. But we still know what emotion, what

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(35:33.721)

we're trying to evoke out of the audience with this scene. So it's something where once you have all that prep and you have a lot of trust in your fellow creators to really stick to the big picture, I think that's where wearing all the hats becomes feasible in that way. To Alex's point, it's like whether or not the next one gets a budget or not, we're going again. And that's what I think this model proved to us was like, no matter what,

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we're going again, because this is what we want to do, right? And again, the last thing I'll say is, know, George Romero, I think said it best, you only $40 million to be creepy. It's like, man, we're going to be able to the shit out of people whether or not you got, you know, you got the money hose or whether or not you got, you know, spit and glue to put this thing together. So it's just, yeah, make movies is where it's all at. Fix it in prep. Yeah. Fix it in prep. Fix it in prep and you'll be fine. Don't fix it in like...

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Cameron Woodward (36:30.971)

You guys were speaking to something that I wanted to get to as well, which is like, it's just like the momentum here. So fix it in pre, fix it in prep, but like this film won best picture at the Lovecraft Film Festival. That's a really strong launch. And you're thinking already to the future. I'm curious about how you think about momentum now. Like does the next project stay intimate and DIY or does it demand a bigger canvas?

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(37:01.058)

Well, no matter what.

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in our opinion, like the story at its core should always feel intimate. Because for us, the main thing that we focus on is the character first. Like that is where we start every discussion of, know, whatever, you know, give your log line, give your very small idea, like, oh yeah, that sounds cool. Okay, well, who's the character that populates this first? Who's our hero? Who's our anti-hero? And how are we gonna make the audience care about the story? Because sure, the hook will get them in the seat, but it's the character that's gonna keep them there. Yeah, the way we really look at it

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is that the character is the prism and the premise is the beam of light, we shine through it. So we always, you know, take your premise, you your really cool premise, and then you drive it through characters. So it's really about those relationships. So I think no matter what, you know, you can have limitless resources. You can be telling a cosmic horror story, but still tell it through the microcosm of a relationship or a family dynamic or whatever that is, because ultimately, you know, I think all film, but you know, horror especially,

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We're trying to just talk about the horrors that people deal with on a daily basis. then, know, John Carpenter said it right, monsters are us with hats on, but they're always us. So it's like, as long as I think you're always telling a story that feels real to you and feels like something that needs to be told, you know, obviously extra resources. Yeah, it makes it, you know, so, you know, it gives you certain freedoms and certain kind of like, you know, freeze certain constraints. But like we said, you know, and like Eli was saying about David Lynch, it's like,

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that sometimes those constraints are the thing that makes you have this creative catharsis that afterwards the struggle you went through to make the art is the same thing, the same struggle the character went through to overcome the darkness and to fight those horrors, right? So I think kind of to my last answer, like no matter what we're doing it again and we want to scare the shit out of people no matter what, but yeah, that's how we look at it.

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Cameron Woodward (39:01.965)

That's awesome. So Eli, you've seen countless horror projects cross your desk. What was it to you about Dream Eater? I mean, you spoke to it a little bit, but what was it about it that not only caught your attention, but made you want to be a part of the film as executive producer?

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(39:17.388)

Yeah, I mean, it was seeing Chuck, your movie guys, TikTok, that someone sent to me, and I don't scroll TikTok looking for movies, someone said.

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have you heard of this movie? This looks scary. You should check it out. Maybe it'd be right for your new company. cause they just formed the horror section and we, you know, it really to make and release my own films. And then, you know, Ty West called me about Jimmy and Stig's and why don't we release that? And all of sudden, other people started calling me going, Hey, would you release my movie too? And so I've just been looking at films differently, like, okay, this is a movie I can enjoy, but this movie I can actually get behind in a way where

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not just putting my name on it, but I'm actually getting it into theaters. And I reach out to the guys through Instagram and they wrote me back. They were like, holy shit, is this for, this is really you? And it's, yeah, there it is. And they sent me a link and I watched it and I just hadn't been that scared. It's just very simple. Like at first you're watching it going, okay, like I'm with these two characters and this is it. No, I love Canadian horror movies in the snow.

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My Bloody Valentine and Black Christmas and I love snowbound movies in general, like The Thing and The End of the Shining. And I watched it and I was like, my God, this is really, really scary. Like this is legitimately scary. I haven't been this scared in a movie in a long time. And then when I spoke to them, I found out what they made it for, which is 50,000 Canadian. was like, my jaw was on the ground. I thought they were gonna say they made it for a million and a half dollars, which is a million. And it just spoke volumes about their talent.

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and they're nice and those are the people you want to get behind. You they deserve it. They deserve like what, to me the real test of talent, I can't tell if someone's a good director when they've been given $200 million. I don't know. I have no idea. But when someone does something with, you know, $200,000 and you go, oh my God, that was, did it hit, did it achieve its goal? Did it stick the landing? You know, the goal of this movie is to make a great, scary movie.

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(41:23.49)

Did it achieve its goal of being scary? on that scale, it's off the charts. When you watch a movie, it's like, it's a comedy. Was it funny or not? Yes or no? It's very simple. So when I see something that is innovative and unique, and it's a film that I love, also there was an ending idea that I had. There was an ending that what I saw, was like, did you ever have any other ending? And they're like, actually, yeah.

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because I thought there was one sort of story logic thing that wasn't buttoning. was like, this is what, I think you have a good movie, but this is what I think is preventing it from being a classic and a great movie. And I think what makes, whether it's Blair Witch, Paranormal, or especially The Last Exorcism Trial, but really Wreck is the one that does it, I think, the best, which is that last shot is just terrifying, that it's undeniable. And that's what I felt about your movie. I was like, your movie's almost there, but if you can come up with that

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or that final sequence that leaves people with chills, that bone chilling scare at the end of the movie that you go, oh my God, that ties it all together in a way you didn't see coming. And they did, they said, yeah, we actually had this idea. We wanted to do it, we were kind of talked out of it. And I was like, no, fuck that. Like, well, let's do it. Let's do that and make that the ending and put this in theaters. And let's make a classic because I think that's the only way for a movie like this to.

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to sort of get into the public consciousness and in the canon of great horror movies is for people to see it in a theater. You I think that that's, you can pirate a movie, but you can't pirate the adrenaline rush of seeing a movie like this, being scared. You're never gonna be, if you say like, people like, this is the scariest movie of the year, you don't wanna see it at home. You wanna see it in a theater, because otherwise, if you're an adrenaline junkie, you're not gonna get that fix.

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And they did it, you know, and I had the pleasure of going and watching them work for that, for the finale sequence. And I got to see them and they were so, it was like one person doing it. You know, they're like, they call themselves three legs to the tripod, but they, you know, it's more like a T 2000 or something. It's like, yeah, Voltron. It's like, it was amazing watching them work with such efficiency and it was such a calm set, so organized.

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(43:41.432)

They were really, really terrific. I, you know, that's, but when you see it and you meet them, you're like, yeah, these are the people you want to get behind. This is what it's all about. And the way that directors like Tarantino and Peter Jackson and David Lynch got behind me, you want to do that for the next generation of directors.

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Cameron Woodward (43:53.935)

Phenomenal

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Cameron Woodward (43:59.119)

J, Mallory, Alex, and yes, Eli, you too. Thank you, all of you, for the time. Congratulations on the film. I cannot wait for folks to see this and just get horrified together. Like you said, Eli, in theaters, it's so awesome. And thanks so much for sharing a bit about the story and the production, what it took to bring this to life. Really, really awesome, and such a pleasure to meet all of you.

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(44:26.062)

Thank you so much for having us on, man. It means the world to to talk to you today.

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Cameron Woodward (44:35.395)

Right on y'all, this is awesome. Thank you so much.

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